big rod motor safe crank hp

[na90dsm]

ive been reading big rod motors will holr 500whp pretty good but if they hold that much what crank hp will i be looking for. 500whp = what crank hp.

should i be worried abtou this or shoudl i aim for abtou 545 crank hp. i wanna run a 57 trim which is rated at 545hp, and im wondering if i shoudl just go wiht a 60 trim to get to 500whp. lemme knwo what you guys think and any suggestions

 

[Mitchel63]

I would get whatever turbo you want. Just because a turbo is rated to 500hp, doesn't mean you are gonna bolt it on and make that much.....chances are you won't.

Mitch

 

[anconover]

Honestly, 500whp isnt an easy goal, and a good chance you wont do 500whp. The 57trim turbo really isnt the best perfoming either. 500whp is about 590 crank HP i believe, but im not sure id want to push a motor to its exact limit.

 

[PieTSI]

The 57 trim wheel sucks. The 50 trim wheel has better spoolup and flows just as much. If you want around 500 crank hp, which would be about the limit of a big rod motor, (assuming by big rod motor you mean 6bolt rods on 2g pistons) I would go with 60-1 turbo.

 

[na90dsm]

yea i mean 1g rods 2g pistons. i have the rods block and pistons allready. the opil pump crank and everythign else will be new. arp hardware throughout so itll hold up good.

i was thinkin a 60 trim but not sure on the spoolup on the turbo. what will it get full boost at. im gonan build the head pretty stout so i can rev to 8k at least which is about where things will stop making power abouts.

anyoen else suggest a 60 trim over the 50. 500 whp is my goal.

 

[green92gsx]

To be realistic if your shooting for 500 wheel horsepower you better go for something larger than a 50,57,or 60 trim turbo.
I'd say go with non ball bearing gt 56 trim bolt on turbocharger.

 

[deth2u]

I know someone pounding 477 to the ground on a 57 trim SR20. Don't say a ever say a turbo sucks. There are some that do or don't suit your needs.

I have a 57 trim pure Garrett (nothing else) and external TiAL with every upgrade imaginable done to it going on my soon to be 6 bolt. It's a $1,000 turbo. It has been sitting in my room for quite awhile now. Why do you think Honda, Nissan, and other guys always use and perfer this turbo? It's a very broadbased efficency range on it and is an EXCELLENT performing turbo. Not many consider a 60 trim over a 57 because the peaks are harder to hit and maps are basically the same flowing. Instead of regurgitating some crap others found in another post, how about some contribution...

I'd say use a 57 trim on a .82 AR turbine also. Or get a big turbine wheel and balance the .82 housing against the .63 depending on revs and type of racing. Makes for an easier interchange.

green92gsx is right though, If you have your heart set on those numbers, I'd consider a T04B over the T04E family. Maybe even the TS04 just off the top of the head. But, the guy with the SR20 has some wicked tuning to achieve his numbers, and its taxing the turbo to the limit. I only mentioned it because some goons decided that it "sucks." But, you can probably pull the same from it if you put effort in.

Good luck!

 

[PieTSI]

57 Trim: The 57 trim is not a turbo we really recommend. Its basically a less efficient 50 trim. If you want something that spools faster than a 60, then get a 50 trim. If you want a bit more power, get a 60 trim. If you think you need a 57 trim because some other guy told you it was the best wheel out there, you can convince us to sell you one.

60 trim: Slightly larger than a 50 trim and will support another 10-25hp. The turbo is slightly laggier than the 50 trim. The turbo wiill make support a hair over 30psi and also a good street turbo. Below 20psi, at the same boost, a 50 trim will make more power, but at higher levels, the 60 trim has a slight edge.

60-1: Now were getting into the big turbos. A 60-1 will make upper 500whp, support well into the 30s, and be a nasty turbo. This is a good in-between turbo. Not huge, but not small. Good blend of street and race.

Taken right from AGP turbo. If you don't believe me or AGP check out a flow chart.

 

[na90dsm]

yea i pretty much got my heart set on those numbers on this motor. i also want 8k-8500k revs out of it. i got most of the bottom end so far and the bottom end should be doen in a month or so. maybe after x-mas itll be done since holidays and all. then the rest will be done by summer.

 

[noreaga0221]

Instead of assuming you will be making 545 hp, just go try to. I hope that you do end up making that power but most don't. Good Luck.

 

[na90dsm]

To be realistic if your shooting for 500 wheel horsepower you better go for something larger than a 50,57,or 60 trim turbo.
I'd say go with non ball bearing gt 56 trim bolt on turbocharger.

anyoen else suggest this. any other suggestions abotu the 60-1 also?

 

[herostar]

I love my 60-1, can't say enough good stuff about it... great turbo.

 

[deth2u]

57 Trim: The 57 trim is not a turbo we really recommend. Its basically a less efficient 50 trim. If you want something that spools faster than a 60, then get a 50 trim. If you want a bit more power, get a 60 trim. If you think you need a 57 trim because some other guy told you it was the best wheel out there, you can convince us to sell you one.

60 trim: Slightly larger than a 50 trim and will support another 10-25hp. The turbo is slightly laggier than the 50 trim. The turbo wiill make support a hair over 30psi and also a good street turbo. Below 20psi, at the same boost, a 50 trim will make more power, but at higher levels, the 60 trim has a slight edge.

60-1: Now were getting into the big turbos. A 60-1 will make upper 500whp, support well into the 30s, and be a nasty turbo. This is a good in-between turbo. Not huge, but not small. Good blend of street and race.

Taken right from AGP turbo. If you don't believe me or AGP check out a flow chart.

T04E Max flow at ideal conditions:

60-1 Trim: (T04B) 781 cfm
60 Trim: 678cfm
57 Trim: 640cfm
50 Trim: 588cfm

There is a 100cfm spread between the three.

The 57 has a very small difference in efficency area than the 50 trim. If you resized the graph that AlliedSignal released to the 50 trim you'll see. They were released on different scales. There isn't much of a difference at all, that's why I favor the larger trim for the same engine.

The 60-1 peak efficency tops out at approx 28 PSI (~2x atmospheric pressure). That is pinpoint top by the graph. I wouldnt say in the thirties... If you were going that high, it'd be much better to have a straight T4.

If I was a bit more photo software literate, I'd put all four on a graph for everyone to see.

 

[PieTSI]

Would you like to post the flow charts from these turbos? I can't seem to find them. I would like to do some comparisons.

 

[silvergstguy]

If you really want to make some power, buy this from me. Although i doubt your motor could hold up to it should put about 800crank down.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=9578&sort=1&cat=7&page=1
and with that you will need an intercooler to support it, try this

http://www.dsmtuners.com/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=10150&sort=1&cat=7&page=1
Good luck

 

[deth2u]

Here's a lousy graph I made (can you tell ) of how the 57 and 60 trims compare to the 50. I resized it all and calibrated it to one graph, so it'll no longer be ambiguous to your eyes

Note the difference (or lack thereof) any huge efficiency difference

See last post for CFM rates...

 

[PieTSI]

Well if you look at that paticular flow chart the 50 trim is exactly the same or more effiecient than the 50 trim. At 2bar or 14.7 psi of boost, the 50 trim flows the exact same amount of air as the 57 trim. At 2.4 bar or 20.5psi the 57 trim flows 46lbs/min while the 50 trim flows 48lbs./min. So not only does it outflow it, but it spools up faster. Also the 60 trim outflows both turbos at anything above 1.8 bar, but that wasn't part of the debate.

 

[na90dsm]

anyoen knwo how much a 60-1 outflows the 60 trim. i dont understand those graphs at all and i read up on it and it still confuses the hell otu of me.

im lookin gfor the specs on a 60-1 making 500whp

 

[green92gsx]

The 60-1 flows around 60lb a min. Good for 600hp or more. The gt 56trim wheel flows 65lb's a min for 650 hp.

 

[na90dsm]

so for me to get 500whp id have to puch almost 6 to the crank. so id be better off with a 60-1 either way as the 56 trim is to big.

anyoen have any thought about pushing that much out of this motor. or would i just be better off with a 50 trim and being done with it. i really had my heart set on 500whp


also wanted to do it on pump gas

 

[green92gsx]

From what I researched the 56trim has the same spool characteristics as the 60-1.

also wanted to do it on pump gas

Good luck with that. 500 whp on piss gas is a hell of a task.

 

[na90dsm]

so could i run a 56 trim with the boost set at maybe 20psi and stillpush the same hp. will it flow the amount for 500whp or could it be set to that

 

[GPTourer]

What? Are you asking if 2.0-2.4L's+20psi+pump gas = 500whp? I doubt you'll see that on any turbo.

 

[na90dsm]

no im not saying that. ill be abotu 30psi to see 500whp

im asking because he says the 56 trim sppols about the same as the 60-1. my question is what psi would the 56 trim need to be at to flow the same as the 60-1 at 28psi say. shoulda been more specific

 

[gixrman]

ill be abotu 30psi to see 500whp

not on pump gas you won't, I hope this is'nt going to be a DD. The GT-14 will support 600 with wizard like tunning.