Big Brake Comparison - 3kgtVR4 Brakes vs TCE vs Evo Brakes

[talonTSIDriver]

Basically I want to figure out all the specs for each, price, performance, ect.. for these 3 big brake kits.

TCE is already proven to be good, but how good, and how do the other 2 compare.

I would like to see some actually numbers on each, and some true testing.

3kGT VR4 brakes
Pros: Light calipers, cheap,
Cons: Custom made adapters needed, used calipers, fab work required

TCE brakes
Pros: Tested and proven to work great, bolt on,
Cons: Cost $1100-1400 (cheap for a big brake KIT), anything else?

Evo Brakes:
Pros: Could be cheap if you find a used set of evo brakes.
Cons: Need JDM 99 Galant Knuckles, Heavy Calipers

Any other pros and cons of these brake setups???

 

[PieEyedPiper]

If I see another "caliber" in place of "caliper" I'm gonna...




















Heh, not a dumbass, just havin' some fun with it.
I, too, am interested in the thread topic.

 

[talonTSIDriver]

If I see another "caliber" in place of "caliper" I'm gonna...

whoops! I feel like a dumbass.

 

[Ludachris]

I love how easy it is to change out the pads on the TCE kit, not to mention the rotors are two piece. I don't know the size of the pistons in the Evo and VR-4 calipers but I'd suspect they're not the same size as the TCE kit. I got the big bore pistons in my 4-piston kit, which is almost the same piston area as the 6-piston kit. I'd also check what size pads you'll be using for each kit.

 

[talonTSIDriver]

To my knowledge, I dont think we need all the clamping pressure from the caliper. I think the real issue for our cars is keeping my brake pedal from turning to moosh, and to prevent that we need to keep the brakes more cooler, or at least not allow them to get glowing red. This can be obtained by more surface area on the pad & rotor.

please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[underradar92]

I'm assuming this is getting to be a pretty serious setup you want to get into. One would have the most selection by starting with the JDM galant knuckles, then I'd look into race calipers available for EVO VIII's, the list seems huge! If EVO VIII OEM calipers were a great end point, no one would need to make an upgrade.

I say race calipers, as they tend to have fewer cost cutting compromises and more attention to things like ease of service and other stuff that really matters, like heat control, pad selection, seals that won't burn...

As for testing, It seems unlikely that anyone has swapped any number of kits back to back, which leaves mostly subjective opinions.

If this sounds like upselling, it is. I can't think of any part on a racecar that deserves more attention/quality/thought. Don't cheap out on braking.

 

[jtmcinder]

To my knowledge, I dont think we need all the clamping pressure from the caliper. I think the real issue for our cars is keeping my brake pedal from turning to moosh, and to prevent that we need to keep the brakes more cooler, or at least not allow them to get glowing red.

I agree completely. Following from this, unless and until you have good ducting, I wouldn't touch the brakes. The only thing I'd do is move a little bias to the rear and that can be done with pads.

- Jtoby

 

[underradar92]

I agree completely. Following from this, unless and until you have good ducting, I wouldn't touch the brakes. The only thing I'd do is move a little bias to the rear and that can be done with pads.

- Jtoby

Drrr. Alas, you are the voice of reason sir. I admit I get all hardware crazy when it comes to brakes.

 

[pinder91]

Consider throwing the Baer kit in the comparison?

 

[DSMunknown]

3kGT VR4 brakes
Pros: Light calipers, cheap,

You forgot to add that the calipers say "Mitsubishi" right on the side. A huge plus.

BTW, I'm still waiting for this to take a more solid form in our family.

 

[Elvenhome21]

This is one of the easiest ways to keep the pedal firm and in control, other than ducting which is a PITA for a dsm. http://www.stockcarproducts.com/recirc.htm

 

[wishihadatalon]

Basically I want to figure out all the specs for each, price, performance, ect.. for these 3 big brake kits.

TCE is already proven to be good, but how good, and how do the other 2 compare.

I would like to see some actually numbers on each, and some true testing.

3kGT VR4 brakes
Pros: Light calipers, cheap,
Cons: Custom made adapters needed, used calipers, fab work required

TCE brakes
Pros: Tested and proven to work great, bolt on,
Cons: Cost $1100-1400 (cheap for a big brake KIT), anything else?

Evo Brakes:
Pros: Could be cheap if you find a used set of evo brakes.
Cons: Need JDM 99 Galant Knuckles, Heavy Calipers

Any other pros and cons of these brake setups???

Every vr-4 caliper I have ever held has been really heavy and every evo caliper has been really light weight.

 

[wret]

Every vr-4 caliper I have ever held has been really heavy and every evo caliper has been really light weight.

A statement like this means little without actual numbers.

 

[talonTSIDriver]

I agree completely. Following from this, unless and until you have good ducting, I wouldn't touch the brakes. The only thing I'd do is move a little bias to the rear and that can be done with pads.

- Jtoby

I have done a lot to my stock brake setup and I believe I reached its max potential. I run brembo rotors with HAWK HP+ pads, racing blue brake fluid, and after 2-3 high speed (100mph+) heavy braking down to 10mph, the brake pedal gets soft. By going with a bigger rotor and more brake pad surface, this will reduce the amount of heat because less pressure is needed.

Every vr-4 caliper I have ever held has been really heavy and every evo caliper has been really light weight.

What I have heard is the exact opposite, I will do some research and find some real numbers.

 

[D_Eclipse9916]

I have done a lot to my stock brake setup and I believe I reached its max potential. I run brembo rotors with HAWK HP+ pads, racing blue brake fluid, and after 2-3 high speed (100mph+) heavy braking down to 10mph, the brake pedal gets soft. By going with a bigger rotor and more brake pad surface, this will reduce the amount of heat because less pressure is needed.



What I have heard is the exact opposite, I will do some research and find some real numbers.

Lol ive jumped in on a few of your brake threads. Both the mitsubishi vr-4 and evo caliper are heavier than the Wilwood FSL caliper. Ill have to get weights, but ive owned both the evo and FSL and I have held some vr-4 calipers. (not exactly scientific).

Also the 2-piece aluminum hats on the wilwoods dissipate heat more quickly than a 1 piece rotor, along with the weight savings, so factor that in with the evo brakes (cheapest 2-piece rtors for evo setups are 650-700 dollars) and you realize that the wilwood kit is actually quite cheap for the money.

Talk about seals, look on the 3kgt forums, they blow those seals all the time, wilwood= no seals a huge benefit. Also the powdercoat on those blinging evo brakes? One track session will have them turning brown, which is why a lot of evo guys go aftermarket BBK aside from the other tremendous advantages of aftermarket BBKs.


For road racing=wilwood
For Bling =Evo
For just kicks I guess? = 3kgt
Autocross/daily duty = stick with stock and stick with some good pads

 

[talonTSIDriver]

Well, One thing I like about the TCE kit is everything is new! If you have to factor the cost of getting new 3kgt vr4 calipers, I am sure the TCE kits will only cost a bit more.

I think for my car I will be going with the TCE kit as its a track slut and its PROVEN to work well. I don't want to risk my life out there with something that has not been tested.

But I still want to look into fabing a 3kgt vr4 brake setup as I have a few friends that track their car a few times a year. It would be nice to put together a (cheaper) big brake kit for aggressive driving/auto-x/mild high-speed track use.

 

[projecTSI]

I can get the weight of the 3kgt vr4 caliper when I go back home this weekend (I'm at UW-Milwaukee right now). I haven't installed them yet, but I will be using the 3kgt vr4 caliper with the 13.1" Cobra rotors and the adapter disgned by Wortdog. I got the remanufactured calipers for $150 shipped for the pair off of ebay a while back.

 

[talonTSIDriver]

I can get the weight of the 3kgt vr4 caliper when I go back home this weekend (I'm at UW-Milwaukee right now). I haven't installed them yet, but I will be using the 3kgt vr4 caliper with the 13.1" Cobra rotors and the adapter disgned by Wortdog. I got the remanufactured calipers for $150 shipped for the pair off of ebay a while back.

Please post a link or some contact info of where the adapter can be purchased please!

 

[Todd TCE]

I prefer the "value" approach.

Are the FSL calipers on par with the big Brembos, Stoptechs or APs? Maybe not in all manner. But if cost was not an issue you'd not be looking to spend only $1500, you'd not blink at $3k. I'm good with that. If one of the others is a differential bore, or has monoblock fab, is "beefier" and such, I'm ok with that too.

I look at the FSL as a work horse caliper that will give you ample performance over a good life cycle and is easy to service, offers many pad choices and has a decent balance of weight to mass/stifness. The very early (and light) BSL got a bad rap for being to flexy. But everyone wanted light...You just can't have it all for a low price.

If you were to replace the FSL every three years because you didn't feel it was up to snuff any more it'd cost you about $325 to renew competely. Cam TCE do better on calipers? You bet. The new W4a and W6a are rocks. But along with the radial brackets, need for 14" rotors, mondo pads comes the $2200 price tag. There are also some very good Wilwood racing calipers you guys don't use. They run about $2600ea.

Rotors from me are not rocket science. No floating design either. Cost is lower, no drive bobbins to wear out and no rattles. Is floating better? Sure, for all out track use and more money.

Some say it's all about balance. And when you shop the options it's true here in price as well.

 

[talonTSIDriver]

Well what I don't want is overkill, which is what I have heard about StopTech's. I run no ABS and I don't want to be locking up my wheels too easy, I don't like flat spots on my RA1's, they are not cheap.

I am a strong believer in value as I own a business and I know what its like with people coming in and looking ONLY at the price. You get what you pay for!

Todd, I will be contacting you over winter for a brake upgrade for my car.

 

[projecTSI]

Please post a link or some contact info of where the adapter can be purchased please!

Here are a few links to the thread with more about them:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=184965&highlight=big+brakes

A link to the thread about the adapter I'm using(for a 1g):
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=185350

I bought the brackets from a guy on here named Jon Lane, but I think he sold me the last pair that he had, and they were for a 1g. But there are a few designs that you can use in the first link and take soemwhere and have the adapters made.

 

[ThomasG-1b]

Stop tech has really nice set of big brake upgrades.

 

[SHEARER_TSI]

I know this thread is old but I felt I had to comment. The evo calipers are not heavy at all. I owned an evo and I was surprised the first time I changed the brakes on it.

 

[tkrPerformance]

when I put the evo 9 brakes on my evo 3. The brembo's were a lot lighter of the stock 2piston brakes on the front. even the rear brembo's are lighter than the stock rear brakes

 

[SHEARER_TSI]

when I put the evo 9 brakes on my evo 3. The brembo's were a lot lighter of the stock 2piston brakes on the front. even the rear brembo's are lighter than the stock rear brakes

Agreed, The first time I changed the brakes on my evo i about Sh!t.