AWD to RWD thread, official [Merged 10-7]

[out there]

i've seen that video before, they probably just removed the front axles.
when someone goes through all the trouble of converting a dsm to rwd, it's because they are making huge hp and are being held back by awd drivetrain loss. what drivetrain config are all the fastest dragsters?
converting a near stock dsm to rwd would be a pet project for someone with cash to burn
EDIT: it is more common for starquest owners to swap for a 4g63, no one wants the (4g54? g54b?) 2.6

 

[endlessMyk]

SLowboy Racing did it... I heard it was so they could run a different class or something. I don't know if that's the actual reason.

 

[bigblock]

Alot Of Work But It Looks Cool(pic From Slowboy)

After Seeing That Clip I Want To Convert Mine To Rwd Just So I Can Do That

 

[tumuchNOS]

I built a rwd dsm for $2000.00. I made 600 of it back racing during a local car show event on the street and at the track that I work at. No kidding. Of course its a 1978 dsm, with a stock 4g63 in it. My point is that it is not expensive, just takes a little research to pick the right car and alot of junkyard parts.

 

[dave99gst]

ya coulda bought buschurs RWD tube car for 40k -
shep beat ya to it'

 

[ETK-kAos]

Okay, I haven't been here in awhile. I remember though, there were quite a few posts of people asking if a RWD DSM was doable. Well, here is a vid of a RWD 1st Gen so the asking can stop. Not sure how this was done, probably just some dummy axles up front. Enjoy

(Sorry if this is a re-post)

<a href="http://videos.streetfire.net/iPlayer.aspx?fileid=25A154E2-2C5D-4E48-AB51-9B03EEBAD3FA" target="_blank"><img src="http://thumbs.streetfire.net/25A164E2-2C5D-4E48-AB51-9B05EEBAD3FA.jpg" width="115" height="86"></a><br><a href="http://videos.streetfire.net/iPlayer.aspx?fileid=25A165E2-2C5D-4E48-AB51-9B03EEBAD3FA" target="_blank">Click to see Video</a>

 

[project_tsi]

Yeah, its nice, The tranny soon died after. But repost for 4538380448103084 th. Time.

 

[AWD 4G63]

Good stuff

 

[igopoopy]

no his center diff went bad so he welded it up and tryed to kill it again

 

[ETK-kAos]

no his center diff went bad so he welded it up and tryed to kill it again

! Thats crazy

 

[roadrunner176]

If anyone could help me I would greatly appreciate it. I've got a 97 talon esi thats been a show car for myself over the past couple of years, now I'm somewhat speed hungry, or wanting a mod crazy 2 gen NA. Im planning on blowing the motor mounts and rotating the engine 90 degrees, making two exhaust manifolds, two intake manifolds (was thinking about independant throttle bodies but this would be easier to tune) having the turbos rotated for ram air, two intercoolers, and true dual exhaust, for a rwd NA. Yes I know its going to be allot of hard work so please lay off the criticism, but give me some honest feedback. Im not new to the dsm world. So far I have not been able to find anyone with a half-case / bellhousing conversion, or a rwd transmission that will fit, I've heard from a few that a transmission from a small truck might fit--but could never find anything else to back this up. I have thought about putting the transmission in towards the rear of the car freeing up the engine bay, and having to re-direct the shift lines. Car is a manual, also thought of converting to a 2 or 3 speed automatic transmission. Just recently I was informed about a 420A replacement engine designed for midget and drag racing and was curious to see if anyone knew anything about it. Here is the part number for the block P5007467, here is the only info I could find for it http://www.allpar.com/mopar/la4.html. The block is designed for RWD. Thanks for you time, any real feedback would be greatly appreciated.

 

[DSMcrazy3]

First of all...

Secondly, goodluck getting enough power out of that 420A with out turbo to utilize that true dual exhaust, goodluck getting the engine mounted in there.."sideways", THEN rotating those turbos in your NA project for ram air...

Lastly...

I'm sorry, I just couldn't help myself..

 

[SnoopySLR]

Since your going to have 2 of everything, why don't you just weld 2 cars together?
good luck with ITB's and turbos there chief

I'm not trying to sound like an ass, but when you actually know what your talking about go ahead and repost this. Cause with the informations I'm guessing you have, based on your post, your just going to destroy a DSM.

The kind of project your talking about isn't something you can go to the junk yard and pick up stuff and bolt it on... we're talking about new motor mounts welded in, new trans mounts, making a drive shaft chanell, putting a rear end in there, fabricating rear suspension, and thats not even the half of it.

 

[VegasTSI]

I am in the process of building a lambo kit car with a viper v10 and tremec 6 speed , and seeing its a lambo the tranny/motor had to go in the oposite way of the 2004 viper r/t i got the stuff out of, so I had to make and weld on my own transfercase onto the tranny. it is more then possiable, just a lot of work.

Good luck. If you were in vegas you can come check it out.

 

[90gst]

I like that idea but after you get done customizing parts and replacing parts, you'll be out of money for any engine mods...I'd say just get a turbo engine, build the internals first, slap on a stage # head and go from there. There's no point trying to get performance out of a n/a, you'll probably be lulcky to get 250whp out of it. Remember you'll need a custom differential, cuztom tranny mounting plate, custom exhaust. But anyways, if you want performance, just get an AWD. Lets say you have 450hp and the guy next to you has an awd with 450hp, you probably wont beat him because of traction issues...Dsm's are too light to go rwd.

 

[Turbo Shogun]

Too light to go FR? Explain ...

As for the original poster's FR 2G project, it can be done (maybe). Dodge D50 and Mitsu Mighty Max trannies will work with 4G63. So ditch your 420A and get a 4G63. This has been done with a couple of 4G63 swapped Starions. Google it and I'm sure you'll find some more information. One of the DG Trials Ace drifters has a 4G63 powered Starion.

Then there's the motor mounts ... Good luck with that.

 

[knighteclipse1]

if your speed hungry just get another car like a GSX or GST, but don't waste the time and money unless your just a glutton for abuse and wasted time. I believe ANYTHING is possible. But the question is....Is it really worth it??

 

[Defiant]

The stupid part is thinking of twin turbos on a 2-liter motor. Unless you can find a couple of little blowers off the old turbo Yamahas or the like. Which hardly removes the stupid onus.
The rest of the project is essentially dropping a DSM body onto a custom chassis. Virtually nothing in the console nor rear end would remain as it was.

Figure on about five more posts before this thread is closed.

 

[stirpicult]

two turbos equal = twice as much not NA. NA means no forced induction. turbos are forced induction. so from that point, i say that what you want is impossible. good luck. and moving the transmission back in the car, yet leaving the engine forward? uh...

and my talon weighs more than many many many rwd cars so i am not sure how a dsm can be too light for rwd.

 

[dr1665]

Three posts to go, Defiant!

You might consider the 2.4L and RWD tranny from a Jeep Liberty 2WD with a 2GNT head on it, but all that twin turbo/intake/header talk is just madness, son. RWD is a sweet thing on a drag car, and there are RWD 1Gs out there, but it's no easy project and you're just asking for a worthless pile of scrap metal, plastic and broken dreams.

If you really want to do it, I suggest you find a 2G shell, strip the holy hell out of it and work from there. No point in destroying a perfectly good DSM in the interest of some sadistic pipe dream.

 

[roadrunner176]

Thanks for the replies, and like I said I already know whats going to be involved in the build. I was more or less looking for any information on the engine I had a link too. It would be easier to use that engine than to use a 420a. Don't get me wrong the 420a is a good engine, but its not what I was looking to use. As for the rear end conversion, I have done it before (not to an eclipse or talon), granted it took some time to get it aligned. It shouldnt be too hard for the drive shaft, the tunnel is already there, the exhaust would exit up front, or go oval tucked beneath the sideskirts. Could use a gsx or 3000gt rear end, but would like to go with something not related to the dsm cars. As for the 4g63 swap, its been done before, and I thought You werent supposed to suggest that in this forum. I have the skills to do this and to do it right. Motor mounts arent that big of an issue, electronics, vacuume, and plumbing will be more of a problem as well as either using two smaller radiators or relocating one. Ram air for the turbos is a simple task, egual length headers, the turbos are already in the right direction, I will only need some tubing, and inlets to add into the grill, was'nt planning on using t-60s, probably a couple hybrids. Throttle bodies are going to be trickey, but can be done one for cylinders 1+2 the other feeding 3+4. This is a bad visual but think of SUBARUs Legacy RSK B4 twin turbo boxer engine, and the quad turbo W8. But take a look at that other engine It would be allot easier to use http://www.allpar.com/mopar/la4.html.

 

[roadrunner176]

yes NA means naturally aspirated, you might have misunderstood that I was trying to take a na 95-99 talon eclipse and turbo it as well as making it rwd. I was thinking about using the talon for this project, but I could use my 97 eclipse as well. Originally thought about just using the 2.4 and stroking it to either a 2.6 or 2.7, but the more I read about it, it just made me want to do this even more. The 2.4 has been done.

 

[skreetracer87]

Figured I would finish this thread off with the last post. . Let me finish it off with a and a . Have at it big guy. Im all for a rear wheel drive dsm and twin everything sounds sweet but its a huge overkill. With all that money and fab work you could have a tt Supra. A real panty dropper. . But if your still set on it post some pics whenever you get some progress on it and bust all our balls. Good Luck! You'll need it.

 

[roadrunner176]

I want to say thanks for those who helped, positive or not. But knowone ansered my question about the engine. I asked about an engine, not about the fab work, not about the design, and not about your just buy a gsx and be done and take the easy, be like everyone else approach. Im not going for the just be like everyone else who takes their 4g63t and puts a big turbo on it and drives it into the ground wondering why theres oil leaks and differentials always blowing out. No offense to those who actually take care of their cars, and know what they are doing, infact props for thinking. A properly tuned 4g63t is an amazing car to see and drive. And yes it would be simpler to buy a supra for 25-30K or a 350Z, do a single turbo conversion and drive it like a jet, but thats not very original is it. Theres already a single, double, and triple turbo supra, multiple dsm's with cut targa tops, and enough ricers with enough money to buy a big turbo and nothing else to support it. So could someone if anyone has any knowledge about this engine could you help me out. All I know about it is that its a 420A replacement / alternative for RWD applications stating 350 HP fuel injected NA and 600+ with a turbo before switching to the HEMI head. If anything at least amuse me and read about the engine for yourself and give me your honest opinion about the engine. http://www.allpar.com/mopar/la4.html

 

[roadrunner176]

two turbos equal = twice as much not NA. NA means no forced induction. turbos are forced induction. so from that point, i say that what you want is impossible. good luck. and moving the transmission back in the car, yet leaving the engine forward? uh...

and my talon weighs more than many many many rwd cars so i am not sure how a dsm can be too light for rwd.

Im going from na---to---turbo. Moving the transmission to the rear creates a weight ration better fit for RWD cars of this weight. Ideal is 50 : 50, because when its 60 : 40 and all the airs creating front end downforce making it more like 65 : 35, unless theres extensive aerodynamic enhancements, the rear ends going to get loose. Look at the F1 and Indy cars, their 2.0 v8's turning something like 14 or 16 thousand rpm. Turbos on a 2.0 is very feasable especially when your only looking for a 7.8-8.2 max redline. Oh, and I know a dsm is not an F1 or indy car. If I was looking for high rpms, I would get a twin rotor mazda engine. Does that answer your question about my spacing the engine from the transmission.