Advice needed on injector decision

[92gsxtsi]

Hello I am currently running an e3 16g, Wally 255, safc, wideband o2, fmic, 2g Maf. I'm looking into getting a set of 680cc injectors. After days of looking I can't get a straight answer( seems the opinion is split) if I compensated for 680s @ 20psi would my timing be so dangerously advanced because of the safc? Dsm link is on the list along with a gm Maf but for now I can't stand not being able to run more than 10psi (I'm on stock 450s currently) sorry for the noob question I just want to be safe

 

[92AWDHX40]

Can the safc run 650ccs ask yourself that first if not grab link keep the boost low monitor your wideband and do things the right way be patient. Why run the risk of damaging your engine becasue you 10 psi is a problem for you, a straight answer this the internet somethings maybe accurate maybe not. SO WAIT until you get the fuel you need and the tuning device to handle the increased fuel.

Keep it low until later.

 

[1995silvergst]

Very opinionated topic you have started FYI. Depending on what your goal is for hp, fuel type and boost level will all change the best choice. Also if no link now what are you logging with? You want to keep the injector duty cycle low so the biggest injector you can afford is what a lot of ppl will say then tune them down, I run 850's

 

[92gsxtsi]

I don't have a logger, my only other dsm experience was on my last talon years ago. 1g w/ e3 16g, 2g Maf, 550s , Wally 255, wideband o2,272 cams and an safc . I ran that at 20psi for a while and it worked out til I sold it. I've just never went with more fuel than 550s. I just went off advice from a friend blindly and it worked out, now I'm actually doing research and 2nd guessing myself. Power goals are around 275-300hp (wishful thinking). Basically I want to hit mid 12s. I've read that the 2g Maf will help cut down big injectors but are 680s too much (this is what I'm finding to be the "grey area" with safc's. again the help/criticism is appreciated

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

"It's a rule of thumb that AFC's can only control 50% larger than stock as to what the ECU accommodates."

So, 50% of 450 is - 225. 450 + 225 = 675.

It's within tolerance give or take 5cc , but again, a SAFC cannot accommodate for ignition timing as you have seemingly ran into. While you can compensate to a point with your CAS, what you cannot do is alter the timing curve that your ECU uses. Many people have successfully ran injectors this size and slightly large with a SAFC, but it is in no way recommended nor is it a viable complete tuning solution. Will you be fine? Most likely. Is it recommended? Not so much. What should you do? Grab a better tuning solution.

 

[92gsxtsi]

Basically I know my old setup worked but I'm trying to figure out if moving up to 680s is the straw the broke the camels 4g63? Is anything over 650s the turning point to go dsm link/ standalone? I realize a 16g isn't big boy status but, this is the farthest I've gone in the dsm world to date and i want it to work.

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

Basically I know my old setup worked but I'm trying to figure out if moving up to 680s is the straw the broke the camels 4g63? Is anything over 650s the turning point to go dsm link/ standalone? I realize a 16g isn't big boy status but, this is the farthest I've gone in the dsm world to date and i want it to work.

Well, look at it this way - Is doing 50 in a 45 recommended? No. Will you get pulled over for doing it? Really depends on how picky the cop is that clocks you doing it. So saying that you're using larger injectors than what a SAFC can accommodate for properly is recommended is a no go. It's time to step it up. So just settle that you're a bit out of bounds and decide from there. There's a plethora of things that can lead to engine failure - but without in depth diagnosis there's no way any of us could say that awkward timing here and there was the true killer. All we can do is say don't chance it.

 

[92AWDHX40]

Invest in link lite you'll be happy you did in the long run.

 

[1995silvergst]

1g w/ e3 16g

Is this a MHI true evo 3 16g?

 

[92gsxtsi]

ok i'm sold, dsmlink v3lite. just gotta open my ecu up to see if i'm eprom or not.

now onto the current conundrum. Since dsmlink is in the near future, i'm gonna go ahead with the 680s, and just keep my foot out of it until everything is squared away. I just literally cannot stand having stock injectors, the kid who built the car before I got it must be retarded.

Is this a MHI true evo 3 16g?

i have no clue

 

[1995silvergst]

The reason I ask is flow rate, there is a large difference between some of the knock offs to the MHI true evo3. This could also play into which injectors, a real MHI evo 16g flows 550cfm at 15psi.

 

[92gsxtsi]

I'll go read the numbers tomorrow but I do know it says tdo5h on the housing

 

[clipto]

Should never run anything without a logger you don't know what actually whats going on I would just run 450cc until you get something better even ecmlink v3 lite. Then just grab 1000cc injectors and call it a day. You can try tune with safc get 11.1 a/f ratio on a wideband. good luck. Dont blow it up.

 

[EclipseTical]

Kei and clipto already nailed it. If you're certain you're going to get link then forget about the 680s completely. Save up and then get the biggest injector you can afford; that way you won't have to upgrade the injectors again down the road.

I personally went with 1050s back when i did my fuel system because i knew they'd give me room to grow when I'm tired of the E316g.

 

[ErikTande]

Get ECMLink first. Then the biggest injectors you can afford.

 

[rreign0311]

Kei and clipto already nailed it. If you're certain you're going to get link then forget about the 680s completely. Save up and then get the biggest injector you can afford; that way you won't have to upgrade the injectors again down the road.

I personally went with 1050s back when i did my fuel system because i knew they'd give me room to grow when I'm tired of the E316g.

+1 DSMs are a new world to me BUT Evo's and the 4g63 platform are not. I highly suggest getting something to log runs and save up for something in the range of 880's - 1000cc. It's going to keep you IDC lower and you'll have room for growth later on.

 

[airmail96]

ECMlink and 2150s

 

[Doesnt start monthly]

My buddy is running 22psi on evo3 16g 1000cc injectors and link v3. His car runs amazing and super quick.

 

[92gsxtsi]

Ok just got the 680s in, @ 16-17 psi and -%18 from 3200-7000 it holds a steady 11:1 afr. Gonna do more fine tuning over the weekend but it is night and day different from the 450s. Also going to up the boost to 24-25 in hopes of lessening the negative correction.

 

[clipto]

Grats but woah! Are you still on the safc? Just be carefull how far you push it with it you never know whats happening with just a afc. Glad it's up and running tho.

 

[92gsxtsi]

Yea it's on the safc yet, I'm upping the boost to hopefully bring the correction factor more towards the positive (to lessen the effects of he safc/timing bs). Dsm link is stil the next mod but I'm happy it's not as much of a correction % as I thought. Lets me rest a little easier knowing I'm not too far off factory curves.

 

[Mischif]

If only you had a data logger of some sort. You could log your ignition advanced and see exactly how much advance your getting due to the safc. Then you could just retard your cam sensor x amount of degrees to compensate for how much advance the safc is making the computer give. Also if you had an adjustable fuel pressure regulator you could reduce the fuel pressure so you wouldn't have to use so much correction on the safc.

 

[airmail96]

If you have a laptop you can download the palm emulator and it will work just like an actual palm pilot. I had a lot of luck using it in my car before I got my palm pilot.
[ame="http://download.cnet.com/Palm-OS-Emulator/3000-2212_4-10111408.html"]Palm Emulator[/ame]
MMCD Logger
Info on the logger
How to setup mmcd and make a logging cable

If you already have things figured out awesome, if not this idffently a route you can look into.

 

[92gsxtsi]

Long overdue update. Went [email protected] on 20psi. Had a boost leak (was tuned for 26,held 20) hoping for mid 12s and 113-115 traps !!

 

[Bud92gsx]

Can the safc run 650ccs

Technically yes an safc can do 600s

Op I think you need to put your money into dsmlink.You have a 255 on 450 injectors..See any problems there.Next is the safc,sell it and put the money torwards link.