95 GST fishtailing

[0r1landoDSM]

hi, all.

i got my car running right today after months of building it, but the only problem is i feel every bump and pebble in the rear, and i feel the car fishtailing. my shocks and struts are good but i dont know whats causing this. oh and also forgot to mention tha ti lowered the car 2inchs, i've felt this before with the stock struts but i just thought they where blown(which they where). i replaced my struts and lowered the car and its worse

 

[2gDSM6bolt]

I would check the all the bushings on the sway bar and the overall condition of the sway bar. Also wheel bearings can make the car kind of wobbly feeling.

 

[1995 brian]

What type of suspesion did you use. If you used a cheap one thats the way the car is going to feel i had an acura and the suspension was crap with knock off struts and shocks and it was bouncing all over the place. Also what profile tires do you have. If you have low pros you can feel every bump and rock as well.

 

[rcarbajal4]

What type of suspesion did you use. If you used a cheap one thats the way the car is going to feel i had an acura and the suspension was crap with knock off struts and shocks and it was bouncing all over the place. Also what profile tires do you have. If you have low pros you can feel every bump and rock as well.

+1 on the tires. My friends prelude has a very solid suspension, and the moment he slapped on some 225/35/18s it drove like crap

 

[Black-Out]

You lowered your car and it's worse? Think about what you said and didn't say and you may have your answer for your front drive vehicle feeling like its fish tailing. As you lower the ride hight on any car with independent suspension your suspension geometry changes, in short the lower you go the more toe out the car will have as negative camber increases.....If you lowered you ride but didn't lower your wallet to pay for an alignment your toe and camber will be way out. the toe out with negative camber tends to make a car want to rotate quicker on initial turn in which means on center feel going strait down the road will be twitchy to say the least. before the tires get too worn out to have an alignment done I would make a trip to a suspension specialist and have the alignment sorted before you wad that car up due to lack of control....
Just my advice sir...

William-

 

[0r1landoDSM]

What type of suspesion did you use. If you used a cheap one thats the way the car is going to feel i had an acura and the suspension was crap with knock off struts and shocks and it was bouncing all over the place. Also what profile tires do you have. If you have low pros you can feel every bump and rock as well.

tokico

You lowered your car and it's worse? Think about what you said and didn't say and you may have your answer for your front drive vehicle feeling like its fish tailing. As you lower the ride hight on any car with independent suspension your suspension geometry changes, in short the lower you go the more toe out the car will have as negative camber increases.....If you lowered you ride but didn't lower your wallet to pay for an alignment your toe and camber will be way out. the toe out with negative camber tends to make a car want to rotate quicker on initial turn in which means on center feel going strait down the road will be twitchy to say the least. before the tires get too worn out to have an alignment done I would make a trip to a suspension specialist and have the alignment sorted before you wad that car up due to lack of control....
Just my advice sir...

William-

maybe im over exaggerating it was probably the same i haven't driven the car for months before today so i dont really remember and i lowered my gs 2 inches and it drove fine with the same rims 17" 215/45/r17's

 

[MichaelSuch]

Alignment needs done. Anytime you change the ride height of the car an alignment will need to be done if you want it to handle like before.

 

[Swish]

I had this problem, well one similar and it was because the camber was all out of whack due to the 1.5 inch drop!

once I did the camber correction that rear steer was gone.

But also +1 on the tires as well.. had some bald ones back there... boy oh boy rain and I did not get along with racing slicks

 

[importracr317]

Wheel bearings... I had the same "feeling" on my GSX....2 bad rear wheel bearings. If they're shot, you'll get all kinds of movement back there. Jack up the rear and see if there is any play in the rear wheels.

But first things first...get your car properly aligned. With a 2" drop, there's no way they get the camber back to factory spec, but they should be able to adjust the toe. If you still have that feeling, the problem is either suspension componentry related, or in the hub. Based on your description of "fish tailing", I'm sticking with my original thought of bad wheel bearings.

 

[Black-Out]

Even still if the bearings are bad enough to change the cars behavior chances are your going to actually hear them before the handling is effected. by the time a bearing fails to the point of causing a handling ailment the bearing will be making enough noise to drowned out your stereo 1/3 the up on the volume....... It'll also be bad enough to allow for a catastrophic failure which would let the wheel come off (if you've seen it happen while the cars are going 40-50mph you'll never forget it). If the cars not making noise while your driving then the check suspension bushings on the control arms and sub frame, otherwise the toe setting will more than likely be the culprit of the fishy handling. your tires will also show you if your suspension settings are part of the problem, by looking at the treads after a few hundred miles or so.....read the tread for wear and it can often tell you just how bad the suspension situation is.....

William-

 

[dsmvenge]

Same problem check the sway bar bushings. I did the same thing lowered car and changed the coilovers to kybs with eibachs and the car feels like it fishtales. I havent figured it out yet but i havent looked let me know what u figure out. I got an ingalls camber kit too. You need a four wheel alignment thats what I know you threw the symetrics out by lowering it

 

[98gstbrad]

Yes an alighnment could cause the fishtailing but that would not cause the harsh ride. Yes bearings can cause that but at that point there would be no doubt in your mind that they were bad. Yes bushings on your control arms could cause that but you would also hear a large amount of noise when you went ove rbumps coming from the metal on metal contact or from excess play. My car did the same exact thing and it is most likely in the dampening rate of your shocks or in the stiffness of your spring. The back end of a gst has nearly no weight when you think about it. If the spring is too soft then you can go push on the back end of your car and it will go down an excessive amount. I used to have an integra and it had almost no weight in the rear same as the gst. I got it all stock and then lowered it about 3 inches with stiff springs. Yes i felt every bump in the road but the car would always feel sturdy because the springs were stiff enough to reduce the body roll. The car will also feel like it is floating in a way. The sway bar does reduce body and the way you can tell if that is good or not is look at the bushings and then if they look good thats most likely good. If you cant tell then lift your car and jack the actual wheel up, the sway bar should try to level out the wheel on the opposite side of the car. For anybody who tries to dispute this i have my suspension book from when i went to tech school sitting right next to me.

 

[preludeachris]

hmmm

Rule 1 after doing any kind of work on the suspension DO AN ALIGNMENT

bad rear hubs ? that would be unusual and it would also make A LOT of road noise

Did you think about the rear sway bars iv seen them rust and snap in half ...its fairly common...and it would vastly change the handling .... either way sound like you have some work ahead of you

keep us posted

 

[Black-Out]

Yes an alighnment could cause the fishtailing but that would not cause the harsh ride.

Yep I'm aware of that. I left out any mention of harsh ride because its been lowered and no mention of spring rates was made. The fact that coilovers weren't used virtually gaurentees that the spring rates aren't matched for the struts which I am assuming are stock replacements until the O.P. mentions otherwise.

Yes bearings can cause that but at that point there would be no doubt in your mind that they were bad. Yes bushings on your control arms could cause that but you would also hear a large amount of noise when you went ove rbumps coming from the metal on metal contact or from excess play.

not always the case although most of the time i would agree...but think about this, if the car has next to no wieght in the rear as you've already pointed out a control arm bushing that is bad (allowing excess play, maybe torn, but not completely blown out) will not always make noise from excess play. Rear sub frame bushings are often silent as well when they are loose because a great more amount of force will be required to shift the entire assembly around while driving down the road. This will all depend greatly on the roads condition, if there's any crowns, off camber slants many other variables.....these conditions do not always produce a situation that would generate noise. I been a tech for over 15yrs I've seen this type of thing run the gambit


My car did the same exact thing and it is most likely in the dampening rate of your shocks or in the stiffness of your spring. The back end of a gst has nearly no weight when you think about it. If the spring is too soft then you can go push on the back end of your car and it will go down an excessive amount.

Agreed mis-match damping rates and spring rates will cause this although it would be to the more extreme ends of driving. Control arm bushings however wouldn't require much weight shift to produce this kind of behavior. O.P. when you noticed the cars behavior were you casually driving or were you driving in a spirited manner?

I used to have an integra and it had almost no weight in the rear same as the gst. I got it all stock and then lowered it about 3 inches with stiff springs. Yes i felt every bump in the road but the car would always feel sturdy because the springs were stiff enough to reduce the body roll. The car will also feel like it is floating in a way. The sway bar does reduce body and the way you can tell if that is good or not is look at the bushings and then if they look good thats most likely good. If you cant tell then lift your car and jack the actual wheel up, the sway bar should try to level out the wheel on the opposite side of the car.


For anybody who tries to dispute this i have my suspension book from when i went to tech school sitting right next to me.

WTF Interesting attitude to take from someone with a low post rate. Chill brah no need to come off like someones gonna jump in here and start a flame war, and even if they did your gonna need way more than your suspension book from tech school, there are people on this forum who set up race cars for a living (which I did when I worked as a tech for Porsche about 8yrs back) who will cover more details than the book you have sitting there next to you,because most tech schools don't get into half the black magic that people perform when they're getting a car set up for a different track every other week. Relax nobody here's gonna get a tape measure out and immediately start fluffing for the longest dick contest here. we're all on the same team...




O.P. Your tires should be in good shape but if they're not then they will also cause this issue but I didn't addressed this because so many others have stated the obvious. make sure though because tires that are compromised will also have belts that shift during cornering and that's just plain dangerous you'll want to definitely check out everything that everyone has mentioned so far. pay particular attention to everything that ties your car to the road from tires bearings and bushings to control arms and alignment settings. The cheapest thing to do is have your tire pressures inflated to whats recommended by the manufacturer and have it aligned as best as possible. If these two simple things don't cure the issue then your issue is going to begin to become expensive from there on in.




William-

 

[rEclipserGST]

Consider checking your rear control arm bushings. My upper was gone & had a similar feeling you are describing.

 

[0r1landoDSM]

thanks everyone for your reply's i'll take everyone's advice and check the bushings and get an alignment. we'll see how that goes. but yeah car only fishtails when i hit bumps