780's or evo 8 560's Tuning with only a safc

[DJ23GSX]

Here's my problem..I have both a set of 780cc injectors and a set of evo8 560cc injectors. All i have to tune with is a safc. My question is for anyone with experience with either one of these two injectors. Which one's should I use and which one's should I sell?

my mods are:
Ported 16g,Ported 2g exhaust man and o2 housing, 3" turbo-back exhaust, 3" intake pipe with K&N, ACT2600 SS line, MKIV i/c, 2.5" upper and lower i/c pipes, Magnecor's, bpr7's, Fluidyne radiator, Walbro 255lph pump Weapon Shitty R AFPR

I know the 560's will probly be enough for my mods but i've done seaches and i noticed alot of people with 16g's are running 660's. I have also read that about half of the people that run 720cc or bigger injectors with only a safc have problems tuning. Would it be worth it for me to try and tune with the 780's or should i drop in the 560's for the ease of tuning them. Would there be much of a power difference between the two?

I have also been thinking about selling both of them for a set of 660's..

 

[CanadianTSi]

560's would be fine if you never go to a bigger turbo, 650's otherwise.

 

[DJ23GSX]

560's would be fine if you never go to a bigger turbo, 650's otherwise.

I probly won't go with a bigger turbo becuase i plan on buying an evo in the next year or so. thats kinda why i bought the 780's so they would be an upgrade for the evo too. i have read that people with the 16g have noticed big differences just going from 550's to 650's without any other mods. Anyone experience this??

 

[CanadianTSi]

i have read that people with the 16g have noticed big differences just going from 550's to 650's without any other mods. Anyone experience this??

Where did you read this?

 

[scottsee]

where ever he did, he should forget that he read it.

 

[DJ23GSX]

where ever he did, he should forget that he read it.

Ever hear of the search button.. I spent hours searching about this. I am really looking for some imput from someone who knows what they are talking about or someone who has had some experience with these injectors not some smartass replies. They don't help.

 

[Burnett03]

Here's my problem..I have both a set of 780cc injectors and a set of evo8 560cc injectors. All i have to tune with is a safc. My question is for anyone with experience with either one of these two injectors. Which one's should I use and which one's should I sell?

my mods are:
Ported 16g,Ported 2g exhaust man and o2 housing, 3" turbo-back exhaust, 3" intake pipe with K&N, ACT2600 SS line, MKIV i/c, 2.5" upper and lower i/c pipes, Magnecor's, bpr7's, Fluidyne radiator, Walbro 255lph pump Weapon Shitty R AFPR

I know the 560's will probly be enough for my mods but i've done seaches and i noticed alot of people with 16g's are running 660's. I have also read that about half of the people that run 720cc or bigger injectors with only a safc have problems tuning. Would it be worth it for me to try and tune with the 780's or should i drop in the 560's for the ease of tuning them. Would there be much of a power difference between the two?

I have also been thinking about selling both of them for a set of 660's..

660s are pushing it with stock ecu and just a safc. trust me i know. 700+ CC are to much for just a safc, you will get far to much timing advance.

 

[DJ23GSX]

660s are pushing it with stock ecu and just a safc. trust me i know. 700+ CC are to much for just a safc, you will get far to much timing advance.

Finally a post from someone with some knowledge.....

Thanks

 

[92awddsm]

Keep in mind that the afc can only adjust 50%+ or - from the stock injector size. Anything beyond that will not be able to be controlled with the afc alone. That leaves a range of 225cc-675cc. With 780's, you will not be able to tune them. Even if you could, ignition timing will be way to high to run even moderate boost levels. I personally have an eprom ecu and have run stock 450, 550, and now 750 injectors but have had the eprom burned to compensate for each so I could keep afc settings at 0 or close to it.

IMHO, if you are getting an evo soon, sell the 560's, buy a dsm link or chipped eprom so you can run the 780's in the dsm. mod the hell out of it, and keep the evo stock as a reliable drivers car. This is the more mature side of me saying this so dont flame me. !10 years ago, I would have just taken the newer car, modded the hell out of it, and just walked when it was broke since I voided the drivetrain warranty. I have since grown tired of walking.

 

[CanadianTSi]

Finally a post from someone with some knowledge.....

Thanks

How did I not answer your question in my first post?

 

[DJ23GSX]

How did I not answer your question in my first post?

CanadianTSi That post wasn't intended for you.

The thought of keeping the GSX for the track has crossed my mind and using the evo for the daily driver but you guys know how hard it is to keep a turbo car stock.

So pretty much unless i get my ecu chipped the 780's won't do me any good because of too much timing but the 560's and the safc alone should be enough to for the 16g.


Hey Burnett03 just curious if you have any datalogs from your car with the 660's you could post or pm me?

 

[andymoraitis]

I have a Big 16G running on 550's and they work well at boost levels up to 21-22psi, but that's likely stretching them out a bit. I don't like AFC only tuning since the airflow and timing maps really get yanked around so I would recommend an EPROM ECU with a Keydiver chip to run the injectors and control fuel cut, while the AFC can be used to fine tune for different conditions and set the car up for race gas.

I've said it before, but tuning with an AFC only is like to trying to hammer a nail with a tree stump. FYI, I would use the EVO injectors since they actually flow closer to 600cc and will give you more headroom without maxing out your IDC's. The 780's are simply overkill and 660's aren't really needed unless you plan on using an EVO III Big 16G.

Good luck!

Andy

 

[xchief1320]

I agree 780's are overkill for a 16G but i do run a set of 780's with a B16G at 20# boost using a SAFC and 2G MAS and it works fine. My timing on a WOT run is around 20 or so,And on the SAFC i am only having to pull 17% out on the high settings. my DC at 7000 RPM is 78% with the 780's it was over 100% by 5000 with the 450's..

Everything i read said it wouldn't work but i tried it anyway and it's working for me.It could be because of the 2G MAS,i'm not sure..The only reason i went 780's was i am going larger on the turbo and didn't want to buy twice..

These are just my experiences,others may differ...

Steve

 

[GVR4592]

I've tuned 750's, 2g mas, safc and it was a bi*** compared to 550's or 650's. I got way too much timing advance. Some setups dont have this problem though like xchief1320 said. He gets 20 degrees of timing which isnt bad at all. With my 750's I was getting like 28 degrees of timing.

In my opinion 550's are worthless. I dont know how some people do it but I max those damn things out on everything I run, but some people make them work. Im on a big 16g @21 psi right now with rc 550's I'm running 48 psi of base fuel pressure and my dutycycle is 98%. I hate having to run so much pressure to keep from maxing these injectors out. Timing advance is pretty good though I get about 22 degrees at 6000 rpms

DJ23GSX I would chip the ecu for the 780's if you have an eprom and sell the 560's to offset the cost of the chip. If you dont have an eprom, I would sell the 560s for as much as you can and add a little cash to get some 660's.