650cc and 190lph on Big 16G???

[CJJohnWynn]

Been doing research for about 4 straight hours and have read people saying different things in every thread. So on my setup with my Big 16G, FMIC, datalogger, and an apexi safcII; will a walbro 190lph fuel pump support FIC 650cc injectors at 25psi boost? Still pretty new to all this so any and all advice is welcome!

 

[mnetwork]

How are you planning to run 25psi on a 16g.. you are going to either need race gas or meth injection to do that. What numers are you looking for.. I made over 300whp on 20 psi.. I have the same setup as you.

 

[JayRolla]

Yes the 190lph will be fine. Its impossible for the 16g to push enough air that you will run out of fuel and like mnetwork said you will need race gas, meth injection or e85 to run that boost.

 

[CJJohnWynn]

well when i bought the car the guy had just put the big 16g on it and none of the extras and didn't have a boost controller and it was boosting at 20psi stock from the factory....that was on the stock smic and it never hit fuel cut. Maybe i'm just not getting it but why would 25psi be so hard to achieve?

 

[FonZ454]

My car runs the times in my sig with Denso 660 injectors and a rewired 190lph pump. dynoed 300whp. 25 psi is pushing it for ANY turbo on straight pumpgas.

Pump gas has it's limits to knock prevention... unless you're talking about on racgas, then you'll be fine. low 20s are the most i'd go for boost on straight pump. Also have to be tuned WELL for that.

 

[oldman420]

The only issue that concerns me in this in situation is fuel starv in the fourth injector with your stock rail and fpr. The 190 wont necessarily overrun your fpr but seeing as you are putting in 650's and running 25psi you will be using alot of fuel. Try and imagine one of those garden hoses with all the holes poked in it for irrigation. The hole closest to the water source will be pumping like crazy but when you get to the end of the hose it may be a trickle this is caused by pressure drop through the hose. Be safe and go afpr and rail, which if you live in the states is easy to access and then go 255lph and push even more boost. It's better to be safe then sorry, especially at that psi.

 

[JayRolla]

The only issue that concerns me in this in situation is fuel starv in the fourth injector with your stock rail and fpr. The 190 wont necessarily overrun your fpr but seeing as you are putting in 650's and running 25psi you will be using alot of fuel. Try and imagine one of those garden hoses with all the holes poked in it for irrigation. The hole closest to the water source will be pumping like crazy but when you get to the end of the hose it may be a trickle this is caused by pressure drop through the hose. Be safe and go afpr and rail, which if you live in the states is easy to access and then go 255lph and push even more boost. It's better to be safe then sorry, especially at that psi.

This is not the case, my mechanic is running over 600whp on the stock fuel rail.

To the op there is no way your car was running 20psi from the factory. The evo 16g actuator is set to around 9-11psi. There is something wrong. Also 20psi with no add ons means that motor was running like crap and possibly really damaged.

 

[dsm91TalonTSi]

i had my evo3 16g up to 20psi one time, without a way to control air/fuel ratios, and ended up melting a spark plug :/

 

[kenamond]

I agree with JayRolla about the 20psi issue. You can't deliver enough fuel with the stock fuel system at 20psi, so you would probably be running dangerously lean. Or maybe the guy you got the car from was "exaggerating" a bit.

If you have an aftermarket boost gauge, what boost do you see?

Ever try reading your plugs?

 

[CJJohnWynn]

He wasn't exaggerating because it honestly boosted up to 20psi while i was in oklahoma and it was only like that for about 1 week and didn't drive it hard until i got a boost controller and turned it down and got all of my icp and maft and whatnot. And now i'm up in wyoming where the air is really thin. But i think i got everything figured out now so thanks for all of yalls help! Much appreciated!

If you have an aftermarket boost gauge, what boost do you see?QUOTE]

Autometer Ultra-Lite Boost Gauge read 20psi the first time I test drove it! No boost controller at the time. All he'd done was put on the big 16g and a forge bov. (Only running 10psi now just to be safe until everything comes together)

 

[Boo5t_Addict]

I suggest you get your car checked out if what you say is true, because now your cat is probably melted due to running too lean, and there are probably a bunch of other things wrong with your car too. As far as running 25 psi with pump gas goes, it can be done with meth injection, but fact of the matter is, the charge temperature will be too high for straight pump. You will have too much knock to run safely. 660's and a 190 lph should be fine for a 16g. An fpr is never a bad idea, but not totally necessary. A logger and some way to tune your setup, however, is definitely necessary. Why are you so dead set on 25 psi? Just run 22ish, and tune as well as possible. Maybe upgrade cams, or clip the turbine, and then tune some more. Eventually you will max out that 16g and be surprised by it's capabilities.

 

[c4uldr0n]

I run 20 psi on 650cc w/ rewired 190lph. My IDC is ~ 82% give or take a couple percent at 11.3 afr

 

[kenamond]

And now i'm up in wyoming where the air is really thin. But i think i got everything figured out now so thanks for all of yalls help! Much appreciated!

Keep in mind that at higher elevation, 20psi is a higher pressure ratio for the compressor than at lower elevation, so you're actually running less efficiently than you would be at sea level. If you know your elevation (Google Earth is what I use), you can look up the ambient pressure at that elevation and use that to compute the PR at various boost levels. Also, as an FYI, you have to correct your compression numbers for elevation. I'm at 8000 ft, and you can't ignore the correction this high up. And your car will have different vaccuum on the boost gauge at idle and when motoring (off the throttle and the motor is slowing down the car).

 

[CJJohnWynn]

I suggest you get your car checked out if what you say is true, because now your cat is probably melted due to running too lean, and there are probably a bunch of other things wrong with your car too. As far as running 25 psi with pump gas goes, it can be done with meth injection, but fact of the matter is, the charge temperature will be too high for straight pump. You will have too much knock to run safely. 660's and a 190 lph should be fine for a 16g. An fpr is never a bad idea, but not totally necessary. A logger and some way to tune your setup, however, is definitely necessary. Why are you so dead set on 25 psi? Just run 22ish, and tune as well as possible. Maybe upgrade cams, or clip the turbine, and then tune some more. Eventually you will max out that 16g and be surprised by it's capabilities.

Thanks for the advice but try and read my profile and see what my setup is so i don't get useless information. I don't have a cat so i couldn't melt it and I have a handspring treo 90with MMCd and an Apexi SAFCII.

 

[JayRolla]

I run 20 psi on 650cc w/ rewired 190lph. My IDC is ~ 82% give or take a couple percent at 11.3 afr

Wow my brother is seeing 78% max IDC's with 550's and a 16g at 20psi. 11.1afr.

 

[c4uldr0n]

Wow my brother is seeing 78% max IDC's with 550's and a 16g at 20psi. 11.1afr.

odd... maybe mmcd is lying to me!

 

[jongreene]

Or you could be running stock fuel pressure when it should be bumped up for those injectors.

 

[TearsForTalon]

I'm running 18psi on a b16g all day long with stock injectors and stock smic. which I plan to change soon.

 

[JayRolla]

I'm running 18psi on a b16g all day long with stock injectors and stock smic. which I plan to change soon.

Safely??? You can do it but is the motor at a good afr and not detenating, is the real question.

 

[kenamond]

Thanks for the advice but try and read my profile and see what my setup is so i don't get useless information. I don't have a cat so i couldn't melt it and I have a handspring treo 90with MMCd and an Apexi SAFCII.

What he's saying is that running 20psi on stock fuel is DANGEROUS and you may already have damaged your motor. Having SAFCII can't do anything when the injectors are open 100% of the time because they can't add enough fuel to that airflow. Since you have MMCd, do a 3rd gear pull at 20psi logging rpm, knock, idc, and o2v and post the results. That'll settle things. The warnings about 20psi boost on stock fuel aren't useless.

 

[JayRolla]

How does the treo log with a serial port. USB adapter or something??

 

[TearsForTalon]

Safely??? You can do it but is the motor at a good afr and not detenating, is the real question.

First of all, I don't even know what 'afr' means. The motor is running beautifully...it seems to be the only thing on the car doing its job properly. The standalone is making everything tick nicely. The transmission, however, is being rebuilt, and frankly, I just want to sell the fakking thing before it implodes while I'm doing 100mph. So damn stressful. I just cant bring myself to let go of it though.

 

[nightspeed87]

Air fuel ratio..

 

[JayRolla]

You dont know what AFR means and you running that boost. You have a standalone system but dont know what AFR means. Thats just crazy.

 

[CJJohnWynn]

How does the treo log with a serial port. USB adapter or something??

You get a serial hotsync cable and an ALDL cable and you're good to go.