420A 420a tuning options

[2qik4u]

ok so i am getting to the point where i need to spend some money to make any progress but dont really know where to turn even after researching for hundreds of hours.

ive got a built 420a with turbo and want to go megasquirt. what wideband works best with megasquirt?

right now I have 550cc injectors and a vortech sfmu with missing link, but ive bought a symtech fcd that im going to install. i am looking at potentially pushing 18 psi race and 8 psi street. do i need the 550cc injectors to run 18 psi or could i get away with around 300cc or just larger? it has been really hard to get the car to run with the 550cc's.

i also bought a symtech o2 simulator that i need to install. currently i have no o2 sensor hooked to the ecu. i have an aem in the car but only hooked to the gauge. do i hook the o2 simulator to the front or back o2 sensor wiring?

this is just touching the tip of the iceberg but I need some advice on what direction to go.

 

[tkelly27]

Megasquirt will blow all that crap you've been using out of the water. You will want to ditch that FMU, or if the rate is adjustable put it at 1:1 so it's like a regular FPR and run the 550's. I wouldn't worry about anything other than getting MS into the car.

Right now you're trying to tune for injectors that are bigger than stock that grow as you gain boost and blinding the map sensor to do it all. It's little wonder that it is hard to tune. The megasquirt with a locked in 1:1 ratio will make injector size static, and you'll be able to compensate for the extra air in the VE tables.

300cc's won't cut it. 450 might, 550 should for ~15psi. If you're running mega squirt you can probably run 1200-1600's and idle and drive like stock or better if you've got a halfway decent tune.

You can't go wrong with an innovate LC-1. There are cheaper options, there are options with a better brand name, but I've yet to find one that I like as much as much as innovate, and the LC-1 is priced to compete. You can get them brand new on ebay for somewhere around $180 with the gauge. Ask anyone who has used it and any other wide band and I'm 95% sure you'll hear the same story.

If you already have an AEM WB it will work with MS. I don't know as much about those other than the logger output voltage can sometimes not match the gauge value.

 

[#40Fan]

TunerStudio MS

That is the program that you would be using with the MS. Download it and have a look around.

Under "Tools", "Calibrate AFR" shows all of the WBs that it covers. Even though it might not be listed, you can input your own variables if it is some off the wall WB.

 

[2qik4u]

i will have to wait till I get my new laptop to download that cause im on a mac and dont have or care to put windows on it. the o2 sensor i have right now is narrow band and im going to get rid of it when i get a wideband. I will look into the lc-1!!!

does anyone have any more advice??

 

[2qik4u]

anyone out there have any more words of advice for my 420a tuning options?
does dsmlink support the 420a?

 

[LD25Delta9]

No, but there has been instance of DSMLink being run on engines other than the 4g63.

Get MS. It is THE BEST AND CHEAPEST (best bang for buck) tuning option for the 420a. Full standalone unit at under $700. Get a 1:1 FPR and sell the SFMU. With MS you won't need the FCD or Link anymore, either. I hope your bottom end is built. Or at least have installed ARP rod bolts and know a guy that can put a REALLY good tune on your ECU. And TunerStudio is Mac compatible. Here:TunerStudioMS Download Happy Tuning!

 

[bullettdsm]

does anyone have any more advice??

Unfortunately, your choices are very limited. MSnS is the tuner of choice.

MB

 

[2qik4u]

yes my bottom end is built. full forged with knife edged crank eagle h-beam rods wiseco 8.5:1 pistons. head is built with 1mm oversized valves and crower springs and titanium retainers. full port and polish also. arp studs in the block girdle and arp headbolts. cometic headgasket. Plus I already have a sard 1:1 fpr!!! the sfmu is going to be sold asap! bought it and installed but havent had any luck with getting my 550's to do anything good with it!! ok so on to megasquirt.. is the msns 1 any good?? if i bought one used would i run into more problems than good??? I really hate to spend full price for a unit but will if the older versions arent going to get me where I wanna be. do any of you run msns??? what version do you run??? what problems have you run into??? what about the MSnS autotune stuff ive seen?? is that only on certain versions???? what is MSnS extra compared to regular MSnS??? i have done alot of reading on MSnS but it mostly is some dumb ass just talking and not giving any real info. you guys have any good links you can give me to get good solid info from people who use it??? thanks for the input!!!! also i have ordered a laptop that is strictly going to be for internet and megasquirt so i have to wait to recieve it and fix it (needs a hard drive cause its an old laptop) before i download the tuning program. I dont want to clutter my mac anymore than it already is

 

[96TurboGS]

You really should search there is plenty of info on msextra and msefi that are worth reading. MS1 works just fine, many people have proven it. MS2 and 3 have more precision and make a powerful daily driver much easy to manage. MS3 is still under development but since the dual core processor has much of the same instruction set as the single core one used on MS2 there wasn't much of a problem migrating MS2's work to MS3. Diyautotune sold out of MS3's within the first 12 hours of receiving the first batch.

Differences between the MS units: Megasquirt Product Comparison

Auto-tune is through Tuner studio and Megatune and is a fine tune of the VE cells. Its 40 bucks for tuner-studio's autotune though, but many find it much better than megatune. Tuner studio is the new standard. You still need to tune or have it tuned properly to get the most power through the entire powerband.

i have done alot of reading on MSnS but it mostly is some dumb ass just talking and not giving any real info. you guys have any good links you can give me to get good solid info from people who use it??? thanks for the input!!!!

Really? Where was this at? The more forums you read, the better you will be. Just about every forum I've crossed has good info. Here are some I read but there are more like turbo dodge, and srt4 forums besides experimental DIY fuel injection forums i read.

MegaSquirt Forums

www.neons.org • View forum - Tuning-Megasquirt

Team 2GNT Forum - Viewing topics in Engine Management Systems & Controllers

There is a lot of reading to be had, just search!

 

[2qik4u]

thanks for the info and the links. guess through all my searching i was just searching in the wrong places. thats why I posted this thread though so i could find some good links that would be useful to me and possibly others as well. again thank you!!

 

[2qik4u]

ok so my "new" old laptop wont be fixed for a couple of weeks so I tried downloading tuner studios to my mac and it downlaoded just fine in about 10 seconds but now I cant get it to open. not even using the stuffit expander. i am so confused. i used the link provided above. is it for sure a good link???

 

[rstchris]

There is another option, AEM FIC. This is one of the easiest systems to install and tune. The best thing is no check engine light. I have installed and tuned the fic on a 90 turbo ford festiva 1.3l, a turbo 91 gsr and a 13:1 gsr EG. You drive in closed loop so you have a smooth stock feel and can clamp tps to 4.7v when you start to see boost to go in open loop. I have used MS&S and it is something that always needs adjusting, you have to read for months before you understand it and a closed loop function is very complicated. The FIC can be had for $3XX and is very user friendly.

 

[96TurboGS]

is it for sure a good link???

It's the main site..

There is another option, AEM FIC....The best thing is no check engine light....I have used MS&S and it is something that always needs adjusting, you have to read for months before you understand it and a closed loop function is very complicated.

They are nice units, but there still is a problem with the injector inductance circuits in them causing a MIL on the 420a's. There have been posts on the AEM site about this but there hasn't been anything done about it. Once MS is tuned you can use closed loop correction for fine tuning (if needed), once you do that you shouldn't need a laptop anymore unless you're trying to troubleshoot something or tuning a new setup.

 

[rstchris]

The simple fact that 99% of MS units have no baro correction makes it FAIL for me. By modifying the stock PW you use the perfect factory corrections for baro, ect, tip in (excel enrichment), warmup (never knew why they have 2 tables for 1 thing) it just seems that AEM used good R&D and MS was made in some guys basement. or was it?

 

[96TurboGS]

Where did you get your facts from? MSnS-E through MS3 has real-time baro correction. It's a fact that when typing "baro correction" in Google the first 10 links have something to do with Megasquirt.

There are many ways around tuning accel and warm-up but I won't get into all of that because it just works. MS has come as far as it has because of the feedback and ideas people give/make on the forum to get it working as expected. It's also based on scientific research.

 

[rstchris]

I'm not saying that MS does not work, cause it does. My RS made a F***ton of power for quite a while BUT, there's always a but, will I ever use it again? NO. Did I enjoy my MS experience? NO. When I had mine built I paid for as many options as I could get and still no baro was in it nor was it in any other MS user on 2GNT at that time. It took over 40 hours of reading and another 40 hrs of playing just to get all the settings good enough to make the car start. Nobody wants to "walk" you through a system, they just want to "sell" you on it. For a newb the MS is a nightmare and there are WAY too many settings that don't need to be there and it is far from newb friendly. Start to finish, install, learning, and tuning an FIC takes 4-5 hrs. Even for a newb like me

 

[2qik4u]

i will research the fic and see what i think.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

I'm not saying that MS does not work, cause it does. My RS made a F***ton of power for quite a while BUT, there's always a but, will I ever use it again? NO. Did I enjoy my MS experience? NO. When I had mine built I paid for as many options as I could get and still no baro was in it nor was it in any other MS user on 2GNT at that time. It took over 40 hours of reading and another 40 hrs of playing just to get all the settings good enough to make the car start. Nobody wants to "walk" you through a system, they just want to "sell" you on it. For a newb the MS is a nightmare and there are WAY too many settings that don't need to be there and it is far from newb friendly. Start to finish, install, learning, and tuning an FIC takes 4-5 hrs. Even for a newb like me

It sounds like you've been out of the Megasquirt game for quite a while. The device has made major strides in the past couple of years. Your description is outdated and inaccurate.