400 WHP on a $3000 budget?

[#40Fan]

I have a 96 Avenger 2.0 that is going to get overhauled in the near future. Started looking around and found this place. I know that I can go back to stock configuration for less than $600 (If that) in parts. Is it feisable to get 400 whp out of it with a $3000 budget not including labor (free) and machine work?

 

[96eclipzGsT]

Building a 420a motor takes some research for sure. You might want to think about getting something with a 4g63t in it. Here is some help if not.

Hahn Racecraft - Automotive Turbosystems

 

[black_gst]

i think you will have trouble trying to do that with only 3k on a 420a

 

[regulator213]

Building a 420A is like building a SOHC 6g72 (3000gt). it would cost Waaay less money in the end to build the 4g63t and it would probably be more reliable. Plus it will be a ton easier to find parts for the 4g63, and it will be easier to find people to help if you have problems with it. There are endless walk through's for maintenance procedures on the 4g63, not nearly as many for the 420A. Although it would be a lot of work to put a 4g63 into your avenger. In the end your best bet is to sell your avenger and buy a DSM. and if you want 400+ horsepower I wouldnt get anything except AWD.

 

[TheOctane]

I can personally attest to this idea. I had a 99 GS with a 420A motor. Looked into the Hahn Stage II turbo kit...it does have the potential but all the support you would need for it is just not there as far as the motor. It can be done but would not be as cost efficient as the 4g63.

Now i own a 98 GSX and it is much easier to work on an progress. TONS more information and parts online. When it comes to turbos its 1000% easier to start with an engine that is already turboed from the factory.

Sell your car, do some research on whether you want a 1g or 2g and then do some shopping. took me 6months and a 2000mile flight to get mine but it was 100% stock and ridiculously clean when i got her.

 

[JEFFREYCASTGSX]

DO NOT swap a 4g63 into your car, you will spend the same amount of money(easily more) in swapping a 4g63 as turboing your car. And in the end the 4g63 would make less power(and a host of other downsides). You CAN turbo your car for under 1000 and make MORE power than a stock 4g63, and my advice is to first turbo your car and then see how you like it, WHEN you feel the need for more then upgrade. Believe me the jump from na to turbo, WILL impress you.

 

[dsmdeliveryboy]

I don't even think I could get 400WHP out of my 4G63 with $3k, is this a serious thread???

 

[rEclipserGST]

$3000 you say?

1. 16g series or hx35 Turbo: $350-500
2. Injectors (680cc-1200cc), Walbro 255 lph Fuel Pump, AFPR: $500-700
3. Engine Management, AEM or DSMLink: $500-1000
4. 2.5" or 3" Exhaust: $150-350
5. Hard pipes FMIC $200-450
Total: $3000

That is of course if you do not want any weight reduction.

Search harder Pizza boy

 

[AWD_FIEND]

All of that pricing reflects used parts of course, which requires a lot of time and luck to find. You left out all the parts that would be required to make it last more than 200mi ie clutch, pistons/rods, turbo rebuild...400whp for $3k not possible if done properly.

 

[rEclipserGST]

All of that pricing reflects used parts of course, which requires a lot of time and luck to find. You left out all the parts that would be required to make it last more than 200mi ie clutch, pistons/rods, turbo rebuild...400whp for $3k not possible if done properly.

I guess you do not hound the classifieds like I do. Part Out's happen almost EVERY WEEK. 12 sec cars and all. You do not need to build the motor unless going OVER 400 hp.

 

[#40Fan]

I know my budget is low and my wants (400 whp) are high, but I thought it would be worth asking. The motor is going to get built either way. When I decided that I needed to get it done in the near future I started looking for some small upgrades to help with the power a little. Then I found this site and relized the potential power of adding a turbo. I just got done reading a thread where a 420a was boosted for $1000! But he was keeping the pressures low on a stock engine (8 psi I believe).

Honestly, if I was able to double the output of this engine, I would be more than happy.

One thing that I was thinking about on the ride home from work today is my driving style. I don't like to get into the gas very much. I take it easy on all of my vehicles as well as anyone elses that I might have to drive through out the day. What I would like is to have a setup that delivered a lot of power in the mid-range (2000-5000 rpm range if that high). If timing the cams or going with a smaller, faster spooling turbo is the way to get that, I would be willing to go that route instead of an all out setup that only delivers good power in the 5500+ range.

One last thing. Looking on ebay there are a lot of cheap(er) turbos. Is there anything name brand wise that is an absolute no-no as in just junk and stay away? I would like to only have to buy one turbo that will last.

 

[rEclipserGST]

One last thing. Looking on ebay there are a lot of cheap(er) turbos. Is there anything name brand wise that is an absolute no-no as in just junk and stay away? I would like to only have to buy one turbo that will last.

Stay away from Ebay turbo's. You can go ebay for exhaust, some manifolds, FMIC, and pretty much anything else that does not move. It's much easier to spend the money once on a good turbo so you do not have to replace it down the road and worry about being boned by greedy ebay turbo seller's who do not honor warranties.

You can get used 16g turbo's or even 14b turbo's from $100-$400 depending on condition. There's a 1g awd talon pulling 12's on a 14b turbo (that's a stock turbo). Your also going to have higher compression compared to an already turboed motor. So you will not be running high boost (no higher than 12 lbs). So picking a small, reliable turbo is your best bet. And the 14b spools quick, is reliable, affordable, can max out at about 22 psi and a rebuilt one can cost $220. That's the reason I went with a 14b, also the fact that I'm on a budget.

 

[AWD_FIEND]

I guess you do not hound the classifieds like I do. Part Out's happen almost EVERY WEEK. 12 sec cars and all. You do not need to build the motor unless going OVER 400 hp.

If you read his post I imagine he doesnt have a month to get lucky enough to find the parts he needs at the price you quoted. Its a meaningless argument anyway because as I already stated your pricing doesnt account for rebuilds and supporting parts to make that kind of power reliably. Which brings up the point does he need to build the motor to make 400 WHEEL horsepower, and I say if he wants it to stay running for any reasonable amount of time without the "ticking time bomb" effect then he should absolutely expect to need upgraded internals.

 

[AWD_FIEND]

One last thing. Looking on ebay there are a lot of cheap(er) turbos. Is there anything name brand wise that is an absolute no-no as in just junk and stay away? I would like to only have to buy one turbo that will last.

I vehemently agree with reclipsergst about avoiding ebay turbos, and I'm not looking for another MHI vs Ebay argument. You will have more PROVEN success without any significant risk of catastrophic failure if you stick with a name brand turbo. MHI, Garret, Holset...

 

[rEclipserGST]

Why do you need to wait months? I do not understand your logic at all. It's called looking aka "lurking" that's it.

2g DSMLINK v2 with ECU And AEM wide band..... Right there
Message - DSM Classifieds

FIC 850 Injectors, go big or go home.... right there
Message - DSM Classifieds

Here's a rebuilt 7-bolt... $950.. right there
Message - DSM Classifieds

14b for $100... right there
Message - DSM Classifieds

Another part out..
Message - DSM Classifieds

and last but not least, a 496 whp part out... right there
Message - DSM Classifieds

I do not need to argue about anything. If I do not know, I do not post it. But most importantly, I find it if I do not know. Searching this site and Google will yield infinite knowledge. You just have to want it. All those post... yea, all posted within September. Do not think it's last year's ad just because you have to go as far as 27 pages. Search is King.

Do your build or swap OP, it's your money... BURN IF YOU WANT. Only your mom can tell you what to do.

 

[DSMsOwnYourV8]

Stay away from Ebay turbo's. You can go ebay for exhaust, some manifolds, FMIC, and pretty much anything else that does not move. It's much easier to spend the money once on a good turbo so you do not have to replace it down the road and worry about being boned by greedy ebay turbo seller's who do not honor warranties.

You can get used 16g turbo's or even 14b turbo's from $100-$400 depending on condition. There's a 1g awd talon pulling 12's on a 14b turbo (that's a stock turbo). Your also going to have higher compression compared to an already turboed motor. So you will not be running high boost (no higher than 12 lbs). So picking a small, reliable turbo is your best bet. And the 14b spools quick, is reliable, affordable, can max out at about 22 psi and a rebuilt one can cost $220. That's the reason I went with a 14b, also the fact that I'm on a budget.

Lol the op wants 400whp and you're honestly talking about a 14b? I hope you have a recommendation on how big of a shot of nitrous he should be running with a 14b to get 400whp.

 

[#40Fan]

He was referring to my second post about really wanting mid range power.

I knew that 400 whp on $3000 wasn't going to happen, but it was worth the asking. But you never know.

 

[JEFFREYCASTGSX]

Did yall realize that the op has a 420A not a 4g63? For a 420a to hit 400whp you had better have a BUILT motor, its simple as that. The only TWO safe ways tune a 420a at that power level is megasquirt or portfueler. You need a big turbo, 50 trim or of the range. Have you ever tried to find a manifold? Me personally i would buy a ebay manifold, but thats all up to you. You need some fuel(inj, 1:1 afpr, and a fuel pump) too. Then comes the clutch, all the little things, some gauges, and dont forget the intercooler. OR you could turbo your car for 1000 dollars, on a stock engine(thats rebuilt) and run 8psi all day safely and without a worry of breaking. Oh and DSMlink does not work on 420a's.

 

[CHPerformance]

get something with a 4g63t

 

[DIRQUIN]

Search around a bit in the 420a section. There are tons of people that are turboing the 420. Ive had one. Once you put the turbo on you will be amazed. its night and day. 8psi will do you fine. Run it for a while. Save some money to build the block later. get used to having the turbo and how different its going to drive. Then you can get into more boost. You dont want to start out with something you will have no control over. Get some seat time in and tunning knowledge under your belt. Then on your next summer outing you can come out and surprize everyone. Good luck.

 

[mikelv]

Man, I just bought a 98 GST with less than 100K on it for 2000 bucks.

Mods:
EVO III Big 16G Turbo
SBR 2G FMIC Kit
255 pump
550's
AFC II
Fresh built tranny
new tires
new shocks
NGK plugs w/ wires
HKS BOV & a 1G spare BOV
spare upper pipe

Hell, I think there is some more stuff that came with it. Car was mint, and there are deals all over the place.
I hate to hate a 420A, but come on guys, that thing is a total POS motor. It's a dodge NEON motor. Keep looking for a 4G63 if you want to make any power.

Do you realize how silly it sounds to wanna waste thousands of dollars on a NEON?

 

[DIRQUIN]

Thats a realy good find. Con grats. But I think you are bias. You have a 4g. I started with a 420. I like to think of it as being different. I put a good deal of money in mine, and have no regrets. Its funny to me when a group of dsmers meet up and the fastest one out of all is a 420. Like I said being different. But now that I have had 2 4g's, I wouldnt have any thing else. Sometimes you have to work with what you have. Its like playing with duplo blocks, then getting a big set of real legos. The duplos are fun no dout, but legos are much more fun. So good luck.

 

[kp116]

My buddy has a 91 tsi awd mods are, e316g, drop in 264/272 cams, 2g mas, 1000cc injectors, rewired 190lph fuel pump, e85 for fuel and a safcI Best pass was a 11.8 @ 119mph... out of a basic bolt-on car!!! If you had a 1g awd I don't even think you would need 3k to get those numbers.... With his weight and trap it came out to be just over 400whp...

A avenger would be different but if you looking to get the most out of your money buying a 4g63 platform car would be the way to go.

 

[dsm-onster]

Why do you need to wait months? I do not understand your logic at all. It's called looking aka "lurking" that's it.

2g DSMLINK v2 with ECU And AEM wide band..... Right there
Message - DSM Classifieds

FIC 850 Injectors, go big or go home.... right there
Message - DSM Classifieds

Here's a rebuilt 7-bolt... $950.. right there
Message - DSM Classifieds

14b for $100... right there
Message - DSM Classifieds

Another part out..
Message - DSM Classifieds

and last but not least, a 496 whp part out... right there
Message - DSM Classifieds

I do not need to argue about anything. If I do not know, I do not post it. But most importantly, I find it if I do not know. Searching this site and Google will yield infinite knowledge. You just have to want it. All those post... yea, all posted within September. Do not think it's last year's ad just because you have to go as far as 27 pages. Search is King.

Do your build or swap OP, it's your money... BURN IF YOU WANT. Only your mom can tell you what to do.

This guy has a 420a dodge avenger. Why all the 4g63 parts? ???

Swapping in a 4g63 is far more time consuming and costly than swapping in off the shelf forged internals into the 420a and using simething like megasquirt to run right with the factory wiring harness. . .

$3000 you say?

1. 16g series or hx35 Turbo: $350-500
2. Injectors (680cc-1200cc), Walbro 255 lph Fuel Pump, AFPR: $500-700
3. Engine Management, AEM or DSMLink: $500-1000
4. 2.5" or 3" Exhaust: $150-350
5. Hard pipes FMIC $200-450
Total: $3000

That is of course if you do not want any weight reduction.

Search harder Pizza boy

I do agree with that list/prices for a 4g63 car. . . Except you WILL need cams not many have made such power with out them unless the turbo was a bit larger than the hx35. . . which is a bit larger than the little 16g.

Hopefully you were joking about the 'pizza boy' comment. No need to be randomly rude to someone just because they say something you don't agree with. He didn't even counter your arguement. You came in and challenged his. . . A little tact goes along way.

 

[dsm-onster]

Man, I just bought a 98 GST with less than 100K on it for 2000 bucks.

Mods:
EVO III Big 16G Turbo
SBR 2G FMIC Kit
255 pump
550's
AFC II
Fresh built tranny
new tires
new shocks
NGK plugs w/ wires
HKS BOV & a 1G spare BOV
spare upper pipe

Hell, I think there is some more stuff that came with it. Car was mint, and there are deals all over the place.
I hate to hate a 420A, but come on guys, that thing is a total POS motor. It's a dodge NEON motor. Keep looking for a 4G63 if you want to make any power.

Do you realize how silly it sounds to wanna waste thousands of dollars on a NEON?

I did get a 1993 running AWD talon for $500, but it had a g4cn swap to it (WTF the hyundai n/t 1.8 6bolt).

But, can't you get a 420a turbo manifold and tie in the exhaust for under $200 and intall a garrett flanged turbo with lines for another 300ish with (a used turbo of course like the hx35). FMIC kit for $300. Used injectors and wally pump for $300. And the forged internals for the 420a plus new head bolts/gasket for another $1000. Megasquirt is under $300. Similar price total to your buy. But it will have a stronger block, rebuilt motor, turbo with more potential, better tuning solution with SD to boot. . .And it will be his car. He may want more interior room. But it will have less traction

Other than the rods/pistons the 420a motor can do just as well as a 4g63. They have a plenty strong crank. Good head flow, intake manfold flow. And responds well to boost.