386whp what will it take?

[rayden]

here is what some other turbo's by FP have done.
http://www.forcedperformance.net/hall.htm

 

[jdmawd]

yup that and a super efficent turbo with a nasty 50 trim wheel low charge air temps are easy.

 

[Ludachris]

God, the turbo vendors are loving this thread... tons of free advertising!

 

[jdmawd]

StockSpyder:

i just took a look at your site that thing is nasty you went with a 272 exhaust cam and 264 intake cam correct. was the 1g head ported, also without going into to much detail on your setup, how much boost did it take to make that 398?

 

[Geovannie]

JDMAWD:

You make it sound so easy eh.. It took Dre a long time to reach that level. How many DSM in the country make 400whp on pump gas? There might be a few, but saying it is easy is crazy. I know of maybe 2-3. 2 of them have stand alones. Go ahead and ask Dre if it is easy to make that much power on pump gas.

RDKT:

We have talked before, I have no doubt your car is going to make tremendous power. I can't wait till you up the ante and put some c16 in it.

 

[jdmawd]

never said its easy all it takes is money tuning and know how, i dont know who dre is. if he has a 2nd gen it maybe a bit harder the setup i listed will get you 400 hp easy, im sorry if you dont agree. the time it took for this dre person to figure it out is mute. the point is once he did it there were certain parts that it took for him to make that type of hp.

20g or larger turbo *pick one* and supporting mods 24-25'ish psi

FMIC *pick one*

ported 95 or evo exhaust manifold and ported or tubular 02 with dump tube
3" exhaust no cat from the turbo back

ported 1g head and 1 mm oversize valves

arp head studs and hks metal head gasket

je 9:1 pistons, knife edge crank and crower rods

short runner intake manifold (sheet metal)

hks,web cams 264/264

hks vpc

cold air intake pipe (very important)

lightened fly wheel (very important)

underdrive pulleys

this will make 400 hp if not more on pumping gas its been done

 

[NJGSX96]

It technically is easy to make 400HP if you have the money and know-how. Dre owns a 2G and tried EVERYTHING until he found a setup that worked. He even tried all the tings people said not to do, just so he could cross certain things off on his mental list and know he tried them. he enjoys tuning and trying out new things on his car. That kind of committment helps in making a fast car. The entire key is tuning. he tunes EVERY night. You can have all the money in the world, but if you can't tune for crap, then you will never hit your goal.

 

[IPT]

Techically if you had all the money in the world you could pay some one to tune it for you. If you are shooting for that much power do you think that it would be a good idea to go to one of the bigger shops (pruven, turbotrix, extreme motorsports, Bucshur) and have them do the first time and watch and learn?? How much do shops like this charge to tune?? Any one??

 

[NJGSX96]

Yeah, but tuning yourself is half the fun. I love tuning the car, whether it is mine or someone else's. Feel good to know you put your car together and you tuned it to run what it does. That could be just me though. It is a simple premise with the correct tools and good amount of time to spare.

As for cost, Pruven is $135 an hour on the AWD dyno and they will help you tune your car. Most dynos are like $75 for 3 pulls, but no one will help you tune usually. I don't know prices for anyone else. I know if you live around NJ, I would be more than happy to show you what I know and help you tune your car for free.

 

[dsmtrance]

AMEN! Tuning, tuning, tuning. W/o it you will have 5k or 10k in mods and a 14 sec car! Sometimes it's about finding the right setup too. I just finished the buildup on my car about 4 1/2 months ago. This is my 3rd DSM and by far the biggest "project" of all of them. Alot of things come into play when building a 400WHP DSM (my goal is the 500 crank mark). I don't know of anyone "personally" that has done it EASILY. 400WHP and you're in the 11's on an AWD. How many people can you say you personally know that are in the 11's b/c I don't know many. Reason why...it ain't easy!
Since the day I finished my buildup (LOOK AT MY MODS LIST) she has been pushing coolant (HG must not have sealed 100% ). Other than pushing coolant though you'd never even know the car had a problem. I have even been racing her every other Fri. at the 1/8th mile track for the last 3 1/2 months too. I run 20/21psi w/ C16 consistent. And she runs 8.00 @ 89mph...consistent (figure 12.3-12.4 1/4). And she has been pushing coolant all the while. So I know that she's not where she should be. I mean, who knows how much HP I am losing when she starts pushing the coolant!! BUT, considering that she's not doing too bad. Compression has not flinched since the day I finished her either (still pulls 190-194 solid across all 4).
Here's my motor breakdown.....Balanced motor, knife-edged crank, shot-peened 91 BIG rods, JE 9.0:1 pistons, ALL ARP hardware in motor, MILDLY ported/polished head, stock size SS valves, and titanium retainers (no balance shaft, no emissions, no A/C, and no CC).
My main point is that if making a 400WHP DSM was easy then anyone with 5k to spend (give or take) would have one. I have over 10k in my car in mods alone and still have to get cams and a VPC before I can even think about hitting my goal. In the end I may even put on a 50 shot wet kit. BUT, w/o tuning it won't be anything. That's where it's at. And tuning, for most of us, ain't easy either. It takes time and patience and knowledge. Sorry this was so long. Hope you all don't fall asleep before you finish reading it. . I wish you luck in achieving the 400WHP goal you have for your car. Just don't go into it thinking it will be easy. Like I said, time, patience, knowledge, and not to mention $$$$$!

 

[jdmawd]

OK guys this has gone off the deep end as most threads like this do. however i am glad to see that we all were able to remain civil in our disagreements (that's awesome). no one that has replied to this topic is a day2 dsm owner, or in other words a newbie. its a given, that tuning is required to make a huge motor combo work. without the hard parts tuning will do no good if the mods you select will not yield the performance you are looking for. can a big 16g turbo flow enough air for 400 HP maybe but how efficient will it be? we are not talking about 1 run wonders or race only cars. im talking about street car drivability and day to day driving. my view on tuning is 100% different than most. maybe that's because i live 5 miles from extreme. extreme has better equipment for tuning than i can ever do with a logger and safc. i have no interest in tuning my car from scratch. i will make the adjustments as needed but base line tuning ill let the shop do it with their AWD dyno and wide band 02. backyard tuning is fun but often ineffective. you spend 5,6,8, 10K in mods and then wing the tuning? on part of the equation that is often left out is charged air temps when tuning though not a consistent variable but important when trying to make small day to day adjustments on a big setup. How often do you see intake temp gauges in the cockpit (almost never but you should) the point is tuning is key and we all know this.


on a side note but unrelated, i was just looking at FP's site is their a reason why the compressor/turbine wheel size is not listed is their green turbo specs? does anyone know what size garrett wheel is used in the green and what turbine wheel is used?

 

[IPT]

Rumor has it that the green is a 50 trim in a TD06 compressor housing connected to a mitsu center section that has a 7cm or 8 cm turbine housing with a TD06(H) wheel.

 

[jdmawd]

but at best its a rumor right? i think its odd that they don't tell you up front don't you? thats like buying a car asking what size motor it has and the sales man saying don't worry its fast

 

[Silent2g]

this is strictly my opinion on the knife edging
from what i have gathered and experienced you really don't gain any HP from it, just lose a lot of daily driving ability.

oil squirters are not the only thing that cools the pistons and rods down, the sheer splash of the crank hitting the oil does it as well

me personally id just balance the rotating assembly. get a pretty heft vavle train. and have some fun revving to 8500 rpms


this is just my opinion.

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by jdmawd
but at best its a rumor right? i think its odd that they don't tell you up front don't you? thats like buying a car asking what size motor it has and the sales man saying don't worry its fast

It may seem funny at first. Most turbo manufactures don’t advertise turbo specs so other less reputable or flyby night companies can't copy design specs. I don’t know how many lame garage based websited that I have seen hawking “green” label turbos trying to make a quick buck on someone else’s good name. I remember a long time back Marco from Magnus had a bunch of great tech articles on his mitsu garret hybrid turbos it served as a great guide for a lot of people to make a quick buck they ended up taking it down. So to answer you question it’s the reason is that people in this world are dishonest and steal other people’s good ideas.