350HP....Reachable anytime soon??

[jeepzj94]

I just wanted to get a little feedback from you DSM'ers who are running between about 310and 350 HP. What supporting mods are you running and what might it take for me to reach this goal on my own car. My mods list is updated and accurate. All input is welcome and appreciated. Thanks guys.

 

[yesItsdsm]

Well if you want 300 plus horsepower out of your motor, the first thing you should do is swap a turbo block in or rebuild your bottom end with turbo internals.

Your setup should take you over 300hp with more boost and more tuning. Your bottom-end is holding you back though..

 

[jeepzj94]

Ok, so other than building the block itself, the mods I have now would be enough to push me into the 300hp range?? Properly tuned of course! I was kinda thinking the 550cc injectors may be a bit small. Would they be able to support those HP numbers?

 

[marsh63]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/fre...questions/277747-fuel-injector-questions.html

 

[jeepzj94]

Thanks....Awesome link! Looks like I'll be upgrading to some 750's to reach my goal

 

[marsh63]

yeah no prblem. with the turbo your profile says you should have no problem reaching your goal. now to tune the 750s youll need to get like a dsm link though. the safc cant tune that high.

just make sure to build you bottem end good and probably get arp headstuds and a multi layer headgasket.

 

[jeepzj94]

Wow, I will still have to get DSMlink to tune with that big of injector huh? The Emanage won't do it?? Is Emanage still pretty much just an SAFC?

 

[TSIMonsteR]

Yes, emanage alters the airflow readings to compensate for injectors which can wreak havoc on your timing advance

 

[beating4g63s]

also you'll need to switch your intake cam to a turbo intake cam, thats one other thing thats different from n/t 6 bolt and the turbo 6 bolt.

 

[rarson]

WHAT? Those horsepower/injector numbers are BS. By all calculations, I'm running about 340 whp on 550's.. Seems about right for the 1/4-mile time. Granted, my IDC's are a little high, but they're not maxed out, and definitely not the 115% I was at with the stock injectors.

An EVO III 16g will support 350 easy. 650's are plenty for an EVO III. Maybe the internet injector calculations say you need more, but real people in the real world are running real horsepower numbers with less injector than that silly list says you need. Goddammit I hate @#$&ing benchracing.

Looking at your mod list, I can only guess a 60-trim should get you there. In fact, I would say, get a wideband and DSMLink and see where you are (assuming you're running turbo engine internals). If you're not close enough with that setup, throw some cams on and see where you are at. Use up every last drop of fuel that you can from those 550s.

On a side note, I dropped 4 tenths in the quarter-mile just from switching to DSMLink over an AFC. So I do think there are nice gains to be had just from the tuning ability of it.

 

[jeepzj94]

I did a lot of researching on changing out the intake cam. Most of what I read on here sounded like there isn't enough difference in the 2 cams to warrant switching them. Does anyone know first hand whether it will make a big enough difference to go ahead and switch it?

 

[redline2k6]

650's should be more than enough for you im running 27psi out of an evo3 16g, and a 255 re-wired and my idc is only 60% at stock fuel pressure

 

[jeepzj94]

WHAT? Those horsepower/injector numbers are BS. By all calculations, I'm running about 340 whp on 550's.. Seems about right for the 1/4-mile time. Granted, my IDC's are a little high, but they're not maxed out, and definitely not the 115% I was at with the stock injectors.

An EVO III 16g will support 350 easy. 650's are plenty for an EVO III. Maybe the internet injector calculations say you need more, but real people in the real world are running real horsepower numbers with less injector than that silly list says you need. Goddammit I hate @#$&ing benchracing.

Looking at your mod list, I can only guess a 60-trim should get you there. In fact, I would say, get a wideband and DSMLink and see where you are (assuming you're running turbo engine internals). If you're not close enough with that setup, throw some cams on and see where you are at. Use up every last drop of fuel that you can from those 550s.

On a side note, I dropped 4 tenths in the quarter-mile just from switching to DSMLink over an AFC. So I do think there are nice gains to be had just from the tuning ability of it.

Thats what I was looking for. I will keep the 550's for now then, and just play it by ear and see what I can get out of them after I build my bottom end. But it sounds like I shouldn't even hassle with installing the Emanage, and just spring for dsmlink?? I got the emanage for free anyways!

 

[rarson]

Hmm... free E-manage... that's a good deal. It's a good system, but honestly it's really tough to compare to something like DSMLink. DSMLink is tailor-made for our cars. It uses the stock fuel and timing maps which run well and make for an easy starting point. I suppose you'd probably need a turbo ECU, but in my opinion, it's really worth it. It's a great tool.

Besides, you skip the injectors and you're about halfway there. Oh, and maybe you can sell the E-manage for some coin, too.

I'm just guessing, but you're probably not pushing that 60-trim too hard with N/A internals. If you get the block built, you should be able to crank the boost up with what you have and tune it with DSMLink pretty easily, and you should probably hit at least 300 whp or so right off the bat. Like I said, I think a wideband would be a good investment, and you should be able to eke probably 350 whp out of it before your IDC's get a little scary. People have all sorts of theories on paper for how you should run injectors, but at the end of the day, my personal experience is that you're probably going to tune the car conservatively enough that you won't do any harm from leaning a little due to maxed injectors. Yeah, it's probably not great for the injectors to have them open almost constantly, but if you're like me, you don't drive around on the street at WOT constantly. You'll probably wind up changing the injectors long before they stop working anyway.

Oh, one more thing. I say this all the time, but DSMLink makes injector upgrades a snap.

 

[rarson]

Also, in my opinion, if you change the cams at all, just go with a good set of aftermarket cams (I highly recommend cam gears if you do this). What is the sense in "upgrading" to a stock cam? You might be held back by the N/A cam (I can't imagine by much), but that's just more reason to go aftermarket. They give good gains even on a 16g car. And power is all about airflow, so if you make the engine breathe better, you won't have to run as much boost to make the same amount of power.

 

[jeepzj94]

rarson: Thank you for all of your information. I will definately be selling the emanage and use what I make from that to go toward the dsmlink. I was thinking the same thing about the cams. Why upgrade to a stock cam ! Especially when there isn't much difference between them. Gonna check out some BC's for that upgrade! And no, I'm not pushing the turbo hard at all. Although even only at 9psi I may be pushing my N/T block a bit with that big of turbo. The car is quick(even though it takes about a day to spool ) but I can't leave well enough alone. I'm gonna find a used block and head to build in the meantime so my car isn't out of comission until I'm ready to do the swap.

 

[rarson]

Good luck, man! I think 280's will probably be right up your alley. With that 60-trim, you'll be maxing those injectors out in no time. But hey, at least you'll have everything in place once you finally step up to larger injectors.

And actually, 300 hp is a LOT of fun. I think it'll take a while for you to get bored of such a good power increase. So don't look at it as being held back for the moment, but rather an opportunity to learn the ins and outs of DSMLink and get the car running good before you really crank up the boost (and possibly break ****).

 

[ezz-e]

A couple of years back i took a 6-Bolt N/T Block to 20 PSI on a 60-1 Turbo it lasted about 4 month's. I ended up building that block and it still running great. As for the e-mange it is a hard to find people that can tune it and in order to get full function from it you have to buy some of the add on's especially if its the blue version. I suggest you go for some bigger injectors like 880's or 1000's that way in the future you have some space for that 60-trim to hit higher boost

 

[haioku-rocket]

WHAT? Those horsepower/injector numbers are BS. By all calculations, I'm running about 340 whp on 550's.. Seems about right for the 1/4-mile time. Granted, my IDC's are a little high, but they're not maxed out, and definitely not the 115% I was at with the stock injectors.

First of all 115% DC is theoretically impossible. It can never happen no wonder what a logger tells you.340WHP on 550s what FPR are we talking about? man I don't know. That seems stretching it a bit especially since you said the injectors are not maxxed and you have no dyno numbers to back it up. I hit 100% DC injectors on my stock 510CC at 18 PSI on my evo 3 16g....but hey who knows.

An EVO III 16g will support 350 easy. 650's are plenty for an EVO III.

I agree with that. On my 780s I think I was somewhere around the low 70s on DC(was so long ago) @ 22psi. So 650s should be sufficient.

Looking at your mod list, I can only guess a 60-trim should get you there. In fact, I would say, get a wideband and DSMLink and see where you are (assuming you're running turbo engine internals). If you're not close enough with that setup, throw some cams on and see where you are at. Use up every last drop of fuel that you can from those 550s.

Disagree. Shouldn't even attempt 550s on a 60 trim. I have ran as high as 82% DC on my 50 trim with 780CC's @ 26 psi, my wife has ran 75% DC on her 60 trim @ 20 psi with her 750CCs injectors. There is NO way 550s would even come close to supporting a turbo that flows 53 lb-min.

 

[haioku-rocket]

btw just for some back up for what I am saying....Here are my car and my wife's.

the Wife's car...like that 60 trim.

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mine..50 trim...

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very very old pic of my car. Sorry no recent ones.

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[jeepzj94]

Disagree. Shouldn't even attempt 550s on a 60 trim. I have ran as high as 82% DC on my 50 trim with 780CC's @ 26 psi, my wife has ran 75% DC on her 60 trim @ 20 psi with her 750CCs injectors. There is NO way 550s would even come close to supporting a turbo that flows 53 lb-min.

What you have to remember right now, is that I am only running 9psi on a stock N/T block. No time soon will I be pushing anything close to 20psi...especially on 550 injectors. By the time I swap out to a built block, get dsmlink and can run that kind of boost, I will have the proper size injectors so as not to max out the DC on anything smaller.

 

[haioku-rocket]

Ok.. I'll admit it. Trying to get my post count up and show off a bit.. ;-)

What you have to remember right now, is that I am only running 9psi on a stock N/T block. No time soon will I be pushing anything close to 20psi...especially on 550 injectors. By the time I swap out to a built block, get dsmlink and can run that kind of boost, I will have the proper size injectors so as not to max out the DC on anything smaller.

WellI guess that will work. Man the 60 trim is a pretty laggy turbo to run at 9 psi. Its not even close to being in its efficiency range. Honestly the TO4E's don't get fun until 20+ PSI.


BTW my wife sees 20 psi @ 4100-4200 RPM. Just to let you know on her 60 trim with a stage 3 exhaust wheel in a .63 PTE AR exhaust housing on 9:1 compression and stock cams.

 

[turboking15]

if you are only looking to get 300-350 why not sell the 60 trim get and evo3?
like stated the 60 trim really doesnt come alive until higher boost levels.

also if you dont have the money to build the n/t why not just buy a stock 6 bolt turbo motor, they are good for at least 400horse and can be had for a reasonable price.

 

[rarson]

First of all 115% DC is theoretically impossible. It can never happen no wonder what a logger tells you.

I know. Obviously if the duty cycle is at 100% or higher, the injector is basically wide open. It's just a calculated number, but clearly if the logger actually gives you a calculated value, then you have an idea of how far beyond max injector flow your fuel demands are.

340WHP on 550s what FPR are we talking about? man I don't know. That seems stretching it a bit especially since you said the injectors are not maxxed and you have no dyno numbers to back it up. I hit 100% DC injectors on my stock 510CC at 18 PSI on my evo 3 16g....but hey who knows.

Like I said, that's calculated. I'm sure that I could be making less, but I definitely think I'm within his 310-350 range.

18 psi on an EVO III 16g isn't really enough info to determine anything. I'm running about 22 psi on a small 16g, and I guarantee you I'm flowing more air than most people running small 16gs. I see about 35 lbs/min at that boost pressure. Which also kind of makes sense with the calculated hp number.

Disagree. Shouldn't even attempt 550s on a 60 trim. I have ran as high as 82% DC on my 50 trim with 780CC's @ 26 psi, my wife has ran 75% DC on her 60 trim @ 20 psi with her 750CCs injectors. There is NO way 550s would even come close to supporting a turbo that flows 53 lb-min.

Sure there is: turn down the boost. I wasn't telling him to push 53 lbs/min on 550's, I was telling him that he can meet his hp goal with 550's. Given that the turbo should easily push 35 lbs/min, I'm assuming 310 hp wouldn't be hard to do, and he can at least hold off on upgrading the injectors til later, if he's patient and doesn't turn up the boost.

Besides, he's already running the turbo on 550's. I'm not suggesting he do anything different, other than increase the boost as much as the injectors will allow.

 

[rarson]

Ok.. I'll admit it. Trying to get my post count up and show off a bit.. ;-)

Nice cars.