2.4 about 4500 miles and big problems

[AL92]

My 2.4 has been great running great up until a day or so ago.Did a few time runs and got some really lousy times. But think most of that was do to my also 4500 mile clutch slipping like crazy at only 20psi.
But after did the runs heard the engine rattling past 3000 mostly. I was out of town with no cell phone and wasn't going to walk miles and miles to nearest farm and hope they had no big dog! The car was running so drove it back into town. Oil pressure looked normal, water temp normal,didn't look at vacuum. I kept the car under 3000rpm and it didnt' really rattle at that rpm.I may not be describing the noise exactly right it may be more knock than rattle.
Now on way into town it stalled out once. I restarted it ok and continuted on. Got within about 8 blocks of my house. It stalled again and this time no restart ,just made a clunk ,clunk noise. Then got it home on flatbed and a bit later since was curious and figured it was likely screwed and would have to be yanked out anyway started it again after turning it over with no ign fuse or spark plug wires. It started but shut it off right away.I didn't listen to see if knocking ,rattling was still there. So it obviously isn't siezed up.
I took off timing belt cover and the belt is on there fine,not ripped. I tried to bump engine to check timing marks ..but it didn't work too well.Need to put ratchet on the engine and my big jack was in service on other vehicle.
So not sure if it jumped teeth or not and if so how many. If it only jumped a few could the engine be ok and would it make some rattling knocking noise and stall and not want to idle very well? Other thought is spun a rod bearing .Would that make engine stall out and possibly hard to restart .I thought rod or main bearing you could drive the car for quite awhile even weeks sometimes.
I have not pulled the pan or anything else just yet. Also heard of all these 2.4s breaking cranks. I have my redline at 8000. I usually shift at 7000 something but it has gone to 8000 here and there. What are symptoms of broken crank? Can it make car stall and knocking noise but still run and restart and would engine still turn over? Also I pulled off valve cover and see nothing out of ordinary with valve springs .Can you see bent valves?
Some guys are saying that the 2.4 might not hit the valves and pistons if a belt slips or breaks. Any truth to this? I have wiseco pistons but 414 crower cams.
So no real idea yet what is wrong with my motor. I see no smoke out the back either but have not compression tested it yet. In next few days will try a few things.
Hoping for the best but expectiing the worst..

 

[AL92]

My engine is g4cs 6 bolt with 1g head.Oh do I have to go around six times to check timing marks on cam gears or only once? Confused about that someone said go around six times.

 

[dnhieu]

well to know forsure your gonna have to take the timing belt cover off and get all the timing marks to line up to see if the car jumped timing. it really sounds like you jumped timing but its kinda hard to tell from your story. no, you cannot check if you got bent valves from just looking in the valve cover. hell, i have pulled heads off and couldnt tell if they were bent. the only real way to tell is to pull them out and put them on a FLAT surface to see if they are bent or not. you can also roll them on a flat surface and see if they "wobble". if they are bent bad enough tho you will beable to see them as soon as you pull the head off...

 

[Raph]

Before you pull the head, just take off the VC and inspect the roller followers, (just tug em with your fingers) If they seem loose..or fall off..theres your bent valve right there

 

[AL92]

roller followers what are those...the lifters?
and do i have to go around like six times to check the marks.

 

[topnotchgsx]

Unfortunately it sounds like you spun a rod bearing. I had this happen to me in my civic hatch one time. Was driving home and heard the knocking start to happen. Shortly after while i was getting off the interstate my car stalled. Started it back up and the knocking was there, but i was dumb and kept driving. The knocking went away for a few miles and my car stalled again. Made it home and the knocking sound was horrible anytime you cranked the car. You would know it just by the sound. Spun bearings have a knocking sound, and valves have a ticking/tapping sound.

 

[aero_sallee]

I'll second the probable spun rodbearing.

 

[paper_clip_boy]

Yup, Im thinking bearing too. Also a possible broken/cracked crank.

Drain your oil into a CLEAN bucket and inspect it throughly, then pull the pan.

Timing check first then the oil, Its the 2 first logical things to check with your situation.

 

[drivemusicnow]

The spinning the motor around 6 times is only if you're running balance shafts and making sure that they are in phase. If you don't have balance shafts, you don't need to worry about this.

 

[AL92]

I will be checking timing shortly but need a jack to get under the car and its being used in other project right now holding up motor. Do i have to go around six times to check it or is once or so around enough.
Might be second jack today. Can never be too rich or have too many good jacks!

What would a broken crank have for symptoms.? The engine is not siezed it turns over and will start if wanted it to.
Why does a rod bearing make it stall? Can't usually you drive a good amount of time on a fubared rod bearing or main bearing. Assume either can go?
I plan on eagle crank this time around and hope the block and some of my pricey internals are ok. I took out balance shafts and ported oil relief. I get oil pressure on guage but wondering what is a decent pressure to have after ported oil relief or should I have left the oil pressure sky high and not ported the relief. Wouldn't a broken crank immediately sieze the engine up?

 

[AL92]

Ok no six times no balance shafts.
Anyway guys I was a BAD BOY and when engine was built I didn't get it balanced.I heard you have to balance it with clutch and clutch was not there when did the motor. i was trying to decide on which clutch and still not sure what clutch will use in future . Most take their own flywheels like twin discs anyway so can't say will always use act flywheel for example . I was going with 2600 but lots of failures at the time with springs so went with hd 4000 the bit older design with six puck not like the newest one. Its slipping like crazy another of my wonderful bad luck problems . Thought have it adjusted right now but had
slave die and master die on it in the past. So maybe it was slipping for long time. Heck maybe it wiped out the bearings? I was going to attempt to set it closer to floor now and see if that helped but was prepared to take out tranny and swap clutches. So there would have gone my balancing anyway.
So can you just zero balance if that is right term. The crank, rods and pistons and do flywheels separately when you install them. I use fluidampr balancer and no balance shafts.
How do I get around this balancing issue if I change clutches and flywheels. I am thinking trying twin disc clutchmasters street fx600 this time around or possibly new hd 4000. Act 2900 or 3200 don't seem like it can take my 2.4 3065 combo. Course maybe won't have a 2.4 anymore might have to go down to a 2.0 if my block is really trashed and cant' find another one. course a 2.3 is another option as well.

 

[drivemusicnow]

Ok no six times no balance shafts.
Anyway guys I was a BAD BOY and when engine was built I didn't get it balanced.I heard you have to balance it with clutch and clutch was not there when did the motor. i was trying to decide on which clutch and still not sure what clutch will use in future . Most take their own flywheels like twin discs anyway so can't say will always use act flywheel for example . I was going with 2600 but lots of failures at the time with springs so went with hd 4000 the bit older design with six puck not like the newest one. Its slipping like crazy another of my wonderful bad luck problems . Thought have it adjusted right now but had
slave die and master die on it in the past. So maybe it was slipping for long time. Heck maybe it wiped out the bearings? I was going to attempt to set it closer to floor now and see if that helped but was prepared to take out tranny and swap clutches. So there would have gone my balancing anyway.
So can you just zero balance if that is right term. The crank, rods and pistons and do flywheels separately when you install them. I use fluidampr balancer and no balance shafts.
How do I get around this balancing issue if I change clutches and flywheels. I am thinking trying twin disc clutchmasters street fx600 this time around or possibly new hd 4000. Act 2900 or 3200 don't seem like it can take my 2.4 3065 combo. Course maybe won't have a 2.4 anymore might have to go down to a 2.0 if my block is really trashed and cant' find another one. course a 2.3 is another option as well.

Preferably your engines rotating assembly was balanced as a whole, and then you can take whatever flywheel clutch and pressure plate you get and balance them. If both rotating assemblies are balanced well enough, then you won't have any problems.

Depending on how you break a crank, on option would be turning the motor over with the starter and seeing if the crank pully rotates with it. This only works if its a clean break. Otherwise you're going to be dropping the pan.

 

[paper_clip_boy]

Although Most people will try to prove me as stupid for saying this but you could have severely crankwalked it. I know its a 6 bolt but Crankwalk can happen on ANY engine.

We had an older GM van that had this happen to it. Flywheel bolts snapped and rods were bent sideways because the crank moved so much while towing a large trailer. 2 main caps were sitting in the oil pan.

 

[1fastlaser]

Let me know if you figure out if you broke the crank. I broke the crank in my g4cs 9k miles. It basically did the same thing heard a weird sound 3k up..like rattle knocking. Its been sitting for a year now. Im pulling the motor finally. I cant stand seeing a 550hp car sitting there with new parts and a broking crank. Im putting a fresh crank in it and getting checked.

 

[ZmanIV]

You could also do a compression test to see if the valves are bent.

 

[AL92]

Eagle makes a forged crank.Will get one for sure if this one is toast. I feel exactly same . Have my 500 plus combo that was freaking fast just few weeks ago and now dead for year or so likely. I could slap it back together but if must tear it apart might as well do forged eagle crank, tre or shep trans, dss axles and 4 spider diff ,possibly clutch masters fx 600 twin disc.
Should be great when get it all back together. Whenever that will be.

 

[1fastlaser]

Yeah the eagle crank looks sick. Im going the factory crank route again. Im changing machine shops and trying again. I got lucky, figure ill try again. If it breaks again im going back to 2.0...i got my old motor sitting in the shop 2g 1g combo with 50k. Just needs a crank also haha. Spun a bearing. If it works then hey, still gonna fix the 2.0 and have it.

 

[olmytsi]

About time you get the gayser fixed Steve. Still got the evo?

 

[AL92]

Well no more stock 2.4 cranks for me. I will wait and save up for the eagle. I have to wonder if the 2.4 is made of different material from a turbo 2.0 crank. It can't be assembly with this many breaking. Mine was minty and 20,000 original and polished only.

Course this is still assuming I have a broken crank but pretty sure. The noise my engine is making sure dont' sound like a spun rod bearing. I really wish had some more time to rip out the motor and survey the carnage. Its depressing but still sort of fascinating in morbid kind of way. Course not looking forward to the repair bill.

 

[1fastlaser]

About time you get the gayser fixed Steve. Still got the evo?

I have a feeling that your cranks not broke. My motor wont even turn over. Sounds more like a spun or bad bearing. T yeah i know man...its time im antsy. Still got the evo, turboback,intake,bc,and a flash runs good...but im keeping it that way. Its my daily no point in making it into a race car. Im gonna change the laser up alittle..mainly just get it running first, and put some radials on it and really tune it. Its time to go fast

 

[AL92]

Well figured it was time to bring this thread back from the dead. My car has been sitting dead since last may but did some basic checking in fall. The compression was fine and even so doubt any bent valves. The timing stuff all looks fine. I did not pull pan as really figure might as well pull engine anyway. I am sure I will find spun bearing or bearings.

I am 100% going with eagle crank and heard they need special bearings or something?
Hopefully don't need to get very many if any new crower connecting rods.

I always was a bit leering using the stock cranks ,mine was polished and nearly brand new but still. So haven't even been on the forum much since the big disaster with my 5000 mile 2.4 .Are lots of guys still breaking the stock cranks in their 2.4s?

The eagle seem reasonable price..I am used to v8 stuff and it can be very pricey.

 

[Savage Talon]

My stock crank is doing fine and I lopped off a lot of it.

 

[Mindslayer]

what ever happen with the car?

 

[AL92]

Parked since then. I should take it apart and figure it out but have been working on my other cars mostly my twin turbo 99 trans am. That one is stupid stupid fast. I also have been working on my 91 auto talon race car.Its going to get the FP3065 from the 97 I think and might go down to fp3052 on the 97. I think the 97 is blown up clutch.symptoms matched that more than spun bearing.

Maybe find out next spring.No big rush right now.