2.1L stroker help

[2g617awd]

Wondering how i would go about building a high revving 2.1L stroker without boring the block i thought all you needed was a 4g64 crank and a 4g63 block. will it be able to spool a gt3582r with a built head? im looking for 750 to 800 awhp, any advice?

 

[twinkiemobile]

a 2.4L crank with a 2.0 block = 2.3L
what you want is a 2.0 crank with a 2.4 blcok = 2.1L DESTROKED.

Do a lot of reading for either, it's not as easy as it sounds. i've personally been researching for 2 months now. with a 2.1L you would rev real high so you'd need a good tranny. but i can rev that gt3582R.

look around there's a lot of info.

 

[2g617awd]

well how could i get a high revving 2.3l, do i even have to bore the 2.0 if i put the 4g64 crank in it?

 

[rst95eclipse]

Yes it has to be bored and honed for a 2.3 stroker application. You can't rev high with a 2.3L, not as high as a 2.0. You could possibly rev it to 8000rpm, if it would be balanced nearly perfect. I have not heard of a stroker revved higher and survive long term.

 

[hks-gst]

Wondering how i would go about building a high revving 2.1L stroker without boring the block i thought all you needed was a 4g64 crank and a 4g63 block. will it be able to spool a gt3582r with a built head? im looking for 750 to 800 awhp, any advice?

your going to need a bigger turbo then that to achive your awhp goals.

 

[nightspeed87]

How about doing a 2.2l with a destroked 2.4 block. I hear those can still rev fairly high and provide a little broader powerband/ more torque than 2.1, I dont know how much of a difference though.

 

[2g617awd]

i think im going to go with the 2.3l stroker with a serious head and shep tranny to handle the power, got to find a great machinist to get the balancing i need. Anyone have any numbers?

 

[sickgsx-316]

750+ AWHP?

That is a serious goal, and an even more serious investment. I dont want to come off as condescending at all, forgive me if I do. From your posts it seems like you could still be a bit new to the car modding/DSM scene, and there is nothing wrong with that, you have come to the right place and posted in the right area, super kudos to that. Your best bet is to call a serious DSM shop and throw around numbers with them as hunting for information online you will run into tons of conflicting info. 800whp and "good deals" wont go hand in hand. Buschur and FFWD come to mind. Be prepared to spend years of your life and 10's of thousands over those years that you will never see again.

And honestly, for 800hp do we really think a DSM is the best platform to start off with w/o being backed by a shop or ludicrous bank roll?

Food for thought, my goal is roughly half of yours at 450hp. I am needing to buy a built tranny(should have learned after the second rebuild...), 1600, then another clutch and flywheel, another 6 bills easy. Axles? As soon as I break them, wouldnt be more than a few runs with more hp than that. So...3k...on parts...now install for the things I dont want to do myself...

My turbo, went the FP3052 route, expensive wastegate, custom 02, custom lines, intake pipe...another 3k..

Then fuel management, and fuel, the head, cams, still a stock block (and an 800hp block could easily run you 10k if you arent doing all the work yourself), tuning...

Lets not forget the suspension. All said and done, I'm well over 10k (of just mods, not all including the repair headaches that come with DSMs) into my car that I could turn around and sell for maybe a quarter to half that. And I'm nowhere near done. And thats just for 450hp.

Now the other question is do you intend on driving this thing on the street? Dont forget about smog...

With those goals, in retrospect, from a guy that bleeds DSMs and hates himself for it, I wish I would have picked a different platform.

C5 ZO6=405hp, carb legal whipple is +50% hp, so, 600ish there...basic bolt-ons, reflash, and some spray (75ish...) talkin an easy 700-750 hp (and what...a clutch for drivetrain help?), passing smog and if you're clever with the funny gas passing a cop's hood popping inspection. Honestly, probably not a whole lot more $$ for this car than the DSM given the DSM will take so much more upkeep and more custom parts to make that kind of hp.

Gosh...seeing what I've done and knowing I havent scratched the surface money wise as I have left out the countless random things I have had go bad on the car is almost upsetting. Glad my g/f doesnt read this crap.

Start small man. Shoot for 350hp, get into the scene, drive it for a year, see what all goes wrong in the life of a pumped up decade old car (chances are, it will be sitting almost as long as its driven), and see if you would rather save up your cash for a longer time to start off with a newer, stronger, better performing platform. I love my car, and love DSMs, but I wish someone would have written something like this before I dove in (they probably did but I just didnt listen).

Now I'm pondering selling my turbo setup and going back to stock(to sell that too) to see if it would give me a decent enough down payment on an 03 Cobra..and I HATE fords. The silly things we horsepower freaks do.

 

[hks-gst]

750+ AWHP?

That is a serious goal, and an even more serious investment. I dont want to come off as condescending at all, forgive me if I do. From your posts it seems like you could still be a bit new to the car modding/DSM scene, and there is nothing wrong with that, you have come to the right place and posted in the right area, super kudos to that. Your best bet is to call a serious DSM shop and throw around numbers with them as hunting for information online you will run into tons of conflicting info. 800whp and "good deals" wont go hand in hand. Buschur and FFWD come to mind. Be prepared to spend years of your life and 10's of thousands over those years that you will never see again.

And honestly, for 800hp do we really think a DSM is the best platform to start off with w/o being backed by a shop or ludicrous bank roll?

Food for thought, my goal is roughly half of yours at 450hp. I am needing to buy a built tranny(should have learned after the second rebuild...), 1600, then another clutch and flywheel, another 6 bills easy. Axles? As soon as I break them, wouldnt be more than a few runs with more hp than that. So...3k...on parts...now install for the things I dont want to do myself...

My turbo, went the FP3052 route, expensive wastegate, custom 02, custom lines, intake pipe...another 3k..

Then fuel management, and fuel, the head, cams, still a stock block (and an 800hp block could easily run you 10k if you arent doing all the work yourself), tuning...

Lets not forget the suspension. All said and done, I'm well over 10k (of just mods, not all including the repair headaches that come with DSMs) into my car that I could turn around and sell for maybe a quarter to half that. And I'm nowhere near done. And thats just for 450hp.

Now the other question is do you intend on driving this thing on the street? Dont forget about smog...

With those goals, in retrospect, from a guy that bleeds DSMs and hates himself for it, I wish I would have picked a different platform.

C5 ZO6=405hp, carb legal whipple is +50% hp, so, 600ish there...basic bolt-ons, reflash, and some spray (75ish...) talkin an easy 700-750 hp (and what...a clutch for drivetrain help?), passing smog and if you're clever with the funny gas passing a cop's hood popping inspection. Honestly, probably not a whole lot more $$ for this car than the DSM given the DSM will take so much more upkeep and more custom parts to make that kind of hp.

Gosh...seeing what I've done and knowing I havent scratched the surface money wise as I have left out the countless random things I have had go bad on the car is almost upsetting. Glad my g/f doesnt read this crap.

Start small man. Shoot for 350hp, get into the scene, drive it for a year, see what all goes wrong in the life of a pumped up decade old car (chances are, it will be sitting almost as long as its driven), and see if you would rather save up your cash for a longer time to start off with a newer, stronger, better performing platform. I love my car, and love DSMs, but I wish someone would have written something like this before I dove in (they probably did but I just didnt listen).

Now I'm pondering selling my turbo setup and going back to stock(to sell that too) to see if it would give me a decent enough down payment on an 03 Cobra..and I HATE fords. The silly things we horsepower freaks do.

This is all so TRUE.

 

[1gcrazy]

This is all so TRUE.

unfortunately...

 

[2g617awd]

i know its true, but i dont have a bank roll for a supra hahaha... and im going to need a new engine and tranny soon my 99 gsx gas 135xxx miles on it all original, still runs fine but i dont know for how much longer. if im going to build a new engine im going to go big, and plan ahead on breakable parts, like beefy half shafts, shep tranny, machined block and forged rotating assembly. i want a monster dsm, something no one has really seen on the street, specially around boston... then maybe a few years later ill give the dsm to my brother and start a supra, but tell me a 2.3l stroker with a gt3582r and supporting mods wont get at least 700 horses and a shep tranny to get it to the wheels wont happen, i think it can...

 

[absolute_DSM]

Goto the Turbo forum and just check out what some of those guys are pulling down for numbers. I have seen maybe a handfull over 700... but the one around 500 still haul a$$.





Then ask them what they spent/spend to keep their engines together.

 

[twicks69]

2g617awd - You are asking us questions on how to make a low 9 second car, when you are running with only an intake, exhaust, and a blow off valve.


You will NEED to research for a LONG time before even spending a dime on your car -- you will realize that you cannot afford it for your goals also. Your wish list is nearly $15K alone, and that doesn't get you anywhere close to what you will need.

You need a reality check in the fact that you "cannot afford" the bank roll for a supra, but you want to go fast. The bank roll for a 800whp DSM is more than you are going to pay for a nice MK4 supra TT. EXPECT to spend at least $25K+ on the modifications required to go fast, reliably and safely.

Anyone on here making over 600whp will tell you that you will need twice that to be reliable. The reason is that it needs to be taken one step at a time; you need to modify your engine, suspension, drivetrain, engine management, chassis, brakes, etc.

Heck, you are on a T-25 when you are asking how to run a stroker setup with a 35R -- WAY OUT OF YOUR LEAGUE. Especially since this turbo won't even scratch the surface of your goals--a place where a GT42R (or similar) is a reality for 750-800whp.

Try to shoot for 250whp first. Even then you still need to purchase a fuel pump, injectors, fuel management, etc. Start with that step first. you will see quickly that it gets expensive.

After a while, there aren't any $100-300 parts left to buy, and everything costs at least $1500 a piece. FYI -- A drivetrain capable of reliably handling 800whp costs around $10-12K+ alone (clutch, trans, drive shaft, transfer case-- not even axles).


Not trying to burst your "Matrix" bubble. I am only trying to show you the truth!

 

[twicks69]

but tell me a 2.3l stroker with a gt3582r and supporting mods wont get at least 700 horses and a shep tranny to get it to the wheels wont happen, i think it can...

NO, you are quite wrong. You will be looking towards a GT42R to do so. A GT35R won't even get you close to 650whp easily. Have yo u even researched the turbo at all? http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/catelog/Turbochargers/GT35/GT3582R_714568_1.htm

If you want a reality check, call AMS and see how much they are going to quote you for EVERYTHING needed to make 750-800whp. Their bill will be probably close to $40-50K in parts and labor.

 

[HondaStylez]

but tell me a 2.3l stroker with a gt3582r and supporting mods wont get at least 700 horses and a shep tranny to get it to the wheels wont happen, i think it can...

Good. Screw the nay sayers. I don't buy into this rediculous, "You're a newb, go buy a 14b and play with the little kids." That's rediculous. If you know what you're doing, then go make some power and forget what anyone else says. If you only think you knw what you're doing, then go try to make some power and anything you don't know now, you'll learn along the way.

And remember, these are the same guys that will tell you an Evo 3 can do 400awhp. Using that logic, you could probably get away with a 20g for 700hp.

Make sure the head is BUILT. Stage eleventysixtytwo. Concentrate on increasing engine flow. And good choice on a full Garret turbo. FP bolt on is teh ghey.

Good luck.

 

[twicks69]

I am most definitely not a "nay-sayer" I am looking for 700+whp with my setup. I am only speaking from experience, and trying to show the guy some insight.

You want to do 700+? Then be ready for it. Research and money can do anything.

 

[2g617awd]

1. I bought the car with full intensions of spending a lot of money so you dont have to warn me i know what im playing with
2. if a gt35r can push upwards of 35psi with a stroker that wont safley rev past 8000rpm, for a street tune i think its a good choice
3. im asking for advice on what to buy not warnings telling me what to do and what goal i should start with
4. if im goin to build an engine im going big, real big, plus you have no idea who i am and what im involed in most parts i can get half off... chuch...
5. a stage 4 tranny from shep costs around 2,500 shipped plenty to handle the power
6. who said i would be running my 800hp setup all the time dnt you think i have a daily driver beater honda for a back up

all said and done i know my goals are far off, but if i have an engine out of the car, it ain't goin in without big beef

 

[rst95eclipse]

You're in the newb forum, asking what parts will get you to 750hp while listing a turbo that clearly will not hit that number. Also, you either swapped the block and crank around or you didn't know how to put together (in words) a 2.1L. You asked for advice. These guys gave you their opinions on the matter, according to your first post. Lastly, you asked if your block will need to be bored to create a 2.3 stroker, which you originally didn't know how high it could rev. If you plan on building something this big, you shouldn't need to post this thread, since there have been oh so many before it.

Simply put, just do research before posting. Better yet, make sure when you post, it's not something you can find with two clicks of a mouse and some typing.

 

[2g617awd]

im posting in the forum because im a new member and im not saying i dont appreciate the advice and why would i have to poke around and do crap loads of research when you can just ask someone and they will tell you from experience... i didnt ask becuase i didnt know i asked because i wanted to get an idea of what setup i would be looking for

 

[HondaStylez]

He's new to the site, of course he's in the newbie section. These newbie rules are retarded.

He asked for advice on building a stroker, he didn't ask for people to critisize what he's doing or tell him that he can't handle it. I love this board's mentality that everyone feels the need to be everyone else's parents and tell them what they can and cannot do, what underwear to put on in the morning, what to eat for breakfast, where to work, and what they can and can't do to their cars.

If he wants to be the first DSM to break 5's, then more power too him. Ambition is a good thing. Don't ever tell anyone what they can or can't accomplish and what YOU THINK they should or shouldn't do when they clearly didn't ask advice in that area. If I asked you whether I should wear a blue shirt or a black shirt on my date tonight, you pick between the two, you don't tell me that my girlfriend is a whore and I should actually be dating someone else. You people need to get off your high horses.

 

[rst95eclipse]

And that is exactly why you're getting flack. Why expect people to waste their time typing to you and explain everything, when you aren't showing the effort to go out and learn concepts on your own? No one in their right mind would waste their time doing this: . Questions like these are like beating down a dead horse.......it's already dead, there is no point. They have been explained and there are even sometimes pictures helping you along the way.


Here, I'll help you with your quest for 750hp. Just copy what's in this attached picture. Let me know if this is out of your price range.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[absolute_DSM]

These newbie rules are retarded.

I dont think they are, but you can tell what you think to Chris.

He asked for advice on building a stroker

And he got it.
Reading on the description of the forum -
"Newbie Forum -
Beginner/newbie/general DSM questions. first mods, how to run 10's when you haven't run 12's yet, any tech question that doesn't fit in another tech forum.

Dont you think this post is the exact reason that is put there? Cause everyone argues.

Everyone told him to research it, thats the advice he got, we all have to do it, hes not gonna be spoon fed mom.





Wow this is about when Defiant usually chimes in.

 

[HondaStylez]

You do realize that everything that anyone posts in any section could easily get the reply, "Go research it." Are you here to help people or are you here to reply to every topic with "Do a search." If you don't want to take the time to help, gtfo and don't say anything at all. If you feel it is your personal duty to look out for the personal lives and decisions of the forum members, gtfo and go become a psychiatrist. When someone posts a question, you answer the question posted, minus your ASSuming what they know and are capable of. He asked about building a stroker, not about whether you think he should be building a fast car or not. GTFO if you don't want to answer the question asked, keep your personal opinions on fast cars out of it.

 

[rst95eclipse]

He's new to the site, of course he's in the newbie section. These newbie rules are retarded.

He asked for advice on building a stroker, he didn't ask for people to critisize what he's doing or tell him that he can't handle it. I love this board's mentality that everyone feels the need to be everyone else's parents and tell them what they can and cannot do, what underwear to put on in the morning, what to eat for breakfast, where to work, and what they can and can't do to their cars.

If he wants to be the first DSM to break 5's, then more power too him. Ambition is a good thing. Don't ever tell anyone what they can or can't accomplish and what YOU THINK they should or shouldn't do when they clearly didn't ask advice in that area. If I asked you whether I should wear a blue shirt or a black shirt on my date tonight, you pick between the two, you don't tell me that my girlfriend is a whore and I should actually be dating someone else. You people need to get off your high horses.

I agree with your statement on ambition. And by all means, more power to him. Please look at the statement for the newbie section, trying to run 10s before running a 12. If you don't have the capability to research, then you don't have the capability to do build it. It's just like planning to construct a building. It's easier to change things during the planning stage than when you're actually constructing it. He just sounds like this is new to him. Why even suggest starting this project, when he doesn't clearly understand the concepts? Seriously, researching is the easiest and most important thing to do before a build. If you can't do it on your own, then you have no business asking someone else to do it for you. Additionally, if you can't put the time in to look up information pertaining to your project, then you shouldn't be even considering taking on the project. If he doesn't want people to act like his parent, then he shouldn't ask for people to pour the cereal for him.........

 

[HondaStylez]

Then what are we here for if not to help people? Why post anything on this board. Let's all just go look it up for ourselves, no public interaction. EVERYTHING posted on this board has been posted on some board before and has been beaten to death at one time or another.