1g talon hesitates and fuel runs rich all the time.

[assassin3117]

Hey guys. i just bought a 92 Talon from a friend. he had issues and didnt even try to fix it. so i got it off him for 500 bucks. these are the symptoms. first off i did read the other threads. ok it takes more than a few cranks to start. and when it does it idles high then slowly shuts down. so it takes a few times before she stays on. i can hear the blow off valve pretty loud but its an after market one. not sure what type. but the vacum line goes back to the intake. so while i am driveing, if i try to keep a steady speed of any speed it will not re act and start sputtering and jerking. but if i press the gas pedal a little more she gets up and goes. also while idleing for only 15 minutes it ate up alot of gas. driving from my house to the gas station which is like 10 miles it drank almost 8th of a tank. i can smell unburnt fuel coming out the exhaust and see black smoke. if i press the gas pedal while idling it struggles and stutters as the RPM needle goes up like its choking. i am in the military so i dont make much to buy alot of parts to try and limit what the cause is. so i am hoping for a pretty good answer to what the coperate is. thanks in advance.

Mike
US Navy

 

[Brutus]

Could be multiple things, but check the basics first. Is the car stock, other than the blow off valve you mentioned.

It sounds like its running rich, so check your spark plugs and wires, coil pack.

 

[csgsx23]

Boost leak test.

 

[assassin3117]

well since i am at work now and i work on navy jets in the egress shop i can get a bottle of leak test pretty easy so i will hit that up tommorow when the sun is out. also i pull the plugs out the sockets last night and notice the # 2 and 3 are whitish around the rubber boots. would it be wise of me to hook my A/F ratio gauge to the O2 sensor and see what it does?

 

[boosted86]

i wide band would tell you excatly whats going on in your engine, IF cylnders 2 and 3 are white (normal) its possible that the coil for cylinders 1 and 4 is going bad.

 

[TRYMY4]

well since i am at work now and i work on navy jets in the egress shop i can get a bottle of leak test pretty easy so i will hit that up tommorow when the sun is out. also i pull the plugs out the sockets last night and notice the # 2 and 3 are whitish around the rubber boots. would it be wise of me to hook my A/F ratio gauge to the O2 sensor and see what it does?

I dont think you understand what a boost leak test is. As far as I know it doesnt come in a bottle. . Maybe you can get some duel wobbleator shafts and fix it. j/k. Anyways you take compressed air and inject it into the turbo. Then you look at all your boost pipes, intake, tb, injector rings....etc for leaks. A spray bottle with soap and water helps alot.

So how do you get compressed air into the turbo? A boost leak tester. We make them out of a silicone hose (size of turbo inlet) and a pvc pipe with a cap on one end. Drill the cap and install a tire fill valve so you can hook up your air compressor to it with an air chuck. You will want to get two hose clamps and clamp one to the hose/pipe and the other to the hose/turbo. Make sure you have them on tight because if it comes off under pressure it makes a loud pop. Dont worry its just noisy.

Very important!! Have someone keep an eye on your boost gage. I would pressurize it at the boost level you normally run. 15-20 psi unless you are Shep then its more like 56 psi or something. I usually keep replacing stuff untill boost bleads down real slow. I have seen cars hold 10psi for a few minutes. If you dont have a boost guage you should buy one. The stock guage measures airflow and not actual boost.

Do a search on a boost leak tester. You may find some pics that will help you understand what I am talking about.

 

[TRYMY4]

Just wanted to add that if you have an aftermarket ball bearing turbo you are supposed to attach your tester to the intercooler pipe after the turbo.

 

[8urwrx]

Have you opened up your ECU to check for leaking caps? I had this problem on my 92. The leaking caps spills acid like fluid on the board and eventually burns the ECU up.

 

[assassin3117]

ok i will go get the material to do a boost leak test in a few hours when the sun comes up. and what i meant buy leak check is this stuff we use on this huge ass turbo system that i work on in a military jet. very little and you can see the slightest bit of air leak source. i already researched the boost leak stuff before. and to the other one i will also check the ecu. now i must research on the location of the ECU. and quick question. if the caps are leaking would i be better off replacing the caps (can purchase them at radio shack) or would i be better off just getting a new ecu. thanks again for the help guys.

 

[assassin3117]

ok so i pulled the ECU out and saw nothing out of the ordinary. so i got my cam and took two vidz so you guys might be able to get a better idea of whats going on. and dont worry its not the engine knocking i think it might be a lifter. but i pulled the valve cover off yesterday and saw nothing knocking. and it only happens at idle once every now and then. CEL also comes on every now and then. notice the black smut on the ground. its black and wet and smells like fuel.

VId 1

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vid 2

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[zimfro]

By how much the stock boost gauge was moving in the last video, I would hazard a guess that your MAS is shot.

 

[assassin3117]

hey is there anyway i can check the MAS?

 

[assassin3117]

ok so the ecu has like a thin whitish film over some ares. what could this be

 

[KelTsi90]

Check the timing(CAS) and try another MAF(of a friend). I have a friend that his car does the same thing and it is the MAF. When he's going to run he disconnects it and the car run better.

 

[assassin3117]

ok so i took the ecu to a guy i work with. his job in the navy is an AT. he works with aviation electronic and boards and all that stuff. we were looking over the board and by one of the capaciters there was one of those small black square things coroded by the cap. he went to clean it with isopropyl. and it fell off with him barely touching it. i will try and upload a picture of ti area it went on at. see if you guys/gals will comment on it.

so my question is would this cause my issues? something so tiny?

 

[assassin3117]

plugged the ecu back in to see if that piece that fell out would make it worse. the problem is the same. so i guess i got to suck it up and get another ecu. but i hope it fixes it

 

[ShawnsGarage]

Id say check your MAF.

Backprobe terminal 4 of the connector with the positive probe of the voltmeter and connect the negative to the ground. Turn the key to on but do not start the engine if the voltemeter does not read around 12v. If so check the circuit back to the MFI relay and fusible link.

Backprobe terminal 3, it should read 4.8-5.2v with the key on. If not check the circuit to the ECU.

Backprobe terminal 5 with an ohmmeter and measure the resistance. It should be less than 2 ohms. If not, check the circuit from terminal 5 back to ground.

If none of the above work, the MAS or ECU is dead. Replace it

 

[assassin3117]

uhhhh dude none of that made sense to me. anywhere i can look to get details on doing this?

 

[ShawnsGarage]

Do you have a haynes manual?

 

[assassin3117]

nah but i can grab one tommorow

 

[ShawnsGarage]

well if you dont have on i would suggest the chilton alot better but you need somthing if you plan on keeping the car and wrenching on it

 

[assassin3117]

OK guys so although the ECU looked to be alright i went ahead and replaced it and WA-la the Car is running great. thanks for all of you giving me some ideas. now my only problem is its idling at 1500 but that is probably from where i was messing with the adjustment screw on the throttle body. so easy fix will see if i can get a correct idle tomorrow. thanks

 

[16vtawd]

Your friend increased the idle because it will keep stalling because he was venting the bov also causing it to run rich. You need need to find a Recirculating bypass vavle and route it back to the intake. Also look inside your mas and see if it still has the upper honeycomb(larger one) inside.

 

[assassin3117]

dude i just said it was the ecu the cart runs great now. after i readjusted the set screw on the throttle body.

 

[16vtawd]

Dude I just said venting your BOV to the atmosphere with the stock mas is bad. I know you just got the car but you should look into recirculating your bov. I spotted it in the first video @ 0.26