1g eclipse

[pushnlacs]

hey, whats up? i posted about a week a go for the first time. just after i test drove a 1g tsi and i loved it. i drive a sts right now which is powered by the 300hp northstar v8 and the tsi with its 200 4cyl felt faster even though they perform about the same.(o-60/1/4 mile)

anyway i had a few diffrent choices down for my next car(240sx w/sr,gs-r sedan,)but i think im definatly going to go with a 1g dsm because its the best bang for the buck. i mean awd+turbo for around 5k hell yea and i can drive it rain or snow unlike a rwd car.

i just have a few things id like to make sure off. first is the stock turbo is good up to around 320hp at the crank right?? and hits full boost around 3000rpm???

my main goal is a 400hp street car, thats 400 at the crank not wheels. so i was just wondering what would be the absolute best turbo for hitting 400bhp with the fastest possible spool up????? iv heard a few choices so if you could give me your opinions and the turbos hp figure and around what rpm the turbo is spooled id appreciate it. oh and if your dsm has around 400bhp and youve ran a timed 1/4 it be cool to know your et.

thanks

 

[pushnlacs]

why do i get the impession that people on this forum are bitches??? 18 views and not one reply??? i bet your all thinking "search" well you know what i have and not shit comes up. expessially when i try to find out the hp limit of turbos and find 500 diffrent answers and that goes with anything i try to look up. it doesnt seem like any one knows wtf they are talking about.

i dont mean to piss any one off if im wrong but i just get the impression that everyone one this site thinks they are a bunch of know it alls and are to good to help out a future enthusist of a car u love(whitch is real f'd up)

 

[thegreatms]

hey man, don't get all worked up because people are not responding to your threads....it happens here. If you think people here are arogant....all i have to say is good thing you haven't been on some other forums. That said, I'll give you my opinion on th turbo issue:


I would get a evo3 16G. Because your a 1g it will be pretty easy to bolt up and 400 engine hp is definatly do-able, with support mods (exhaust, FMIC, fuel etc.) Spool up is really good on it too.

I have one question...5000$ for a 1G? that is alot, even if it is in good condition and low mileage. Maybe you should look around for a better deal. I got my 90tsi-AWD for 2500$ out here in expensive CA. Only need 500$ more to get basic tune-up and timing belt done.

 

[zxdude]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/tuning-guide/1gturbo/

also MachV has some good info...

http://www.machv.com/ecperguid.html


hope this helps....

Adam

 

[pushnlacs]

thanks, sorry about getting pissed but iv been on some forums with real assholes so i thought i found another. my bad.

so the evo3 16g can definitly put out 400hp at the crank??? what is the most likley whp the evo 316g will make with all other mods?? also a awd car loses 30% of it power at the wheels right???

what in your opinion is the absolute best "street turbo" and what kinda power does it make and when is it fully spooled??? iv had v8's always so this will be my first small displacment turboed car and i am looking foward to it but just get confused with all the contradictions i hear.

i know for a fact the evo 8's stock turbo can produce something like 450hp(350whp) and put the evo in the low 12's high 11's with full boost well befor 3500rpm. i was just wondering what turbo for the 1g dsm would be most comparible to the evo 8 turbo?????

thanks oh and were are theses cheap 1gens??????

 

[igopoopy]

try this http://dsmtuners.com/tuning-guide/1gturbo/

 

[mister2sw20]

an e3 16g can put out 400crank. The previous owner of my car dynoed it at 290awhp and 315awtq untuned. Also 5k is alot for a 1g mine was only 3200 even though i got a good deal. have fun with your dsm and read up on alot of things

 

[krisj144]

try www.dsmtrader.com for deals on used dsm's

I'll tell you right up front that you definition of streetable will likely change a bit over the period of time you own your dsm. I started out with similar goals as yours 4 years ago and now I find that my dsm has a full cage, is gutted, and a big FP3055 turbo and I'll defend to the bitter end that it's still perfectly streetable mainly because it still runs pump gas 100% of the time.

But, from what you're looking for, a 16G would serve you well provided you have the right supporting mods. One of the big things you'll find out though is that parts don't necessarily equate to hp gains. It's all in the tuning. Those evo's that are running 11's on the stock turbo have been tuned quite well and the evo3 16g 1g's that are putting out great hp have also benefitted from extensive tuning and a well chosen, complementary parts list. Do your research and invest the time to build the car right once you have one that is.

The reason nobody jumped on to help here is because a lot of these questions can be answered with the search function or by searching the various dsm archives. Here's one of the best url's to give you great start. www.vfaq.com

 

[kgtalon95]

The majority of people will say that the evo16g is the best streetable turbo, i'd have to agree. As far as spool time, it all depneds on what you want to do with exhaust, o2 housing, and manifold. I suggest shopping around and finding your price range. I would recommend for a 400hp setup; slowboyracing exhaust mani, evo3 o2 or 2g o2 housing, and either a full 3" exhaust, or 2.5 downpipe to 3"cat-back. With that you'd hit somewhere around the low 3000's Keep checking in the tech sections for more info. You'll need to do some homework about achieving 400hp. the evo16g pretty much peaks at 400hp, so if you're plan is to go bigger latter on, i recommend the 50trim
FYI: the evo8 uses a reverse scroll turbo and is setup pretty much backwards of the 1g/2g dsm. The evo16g came from an earlier model of evo, the evoIII


Good things to know (short version)
boost creep
tuning/software needed
FUEL
Increasing the power band (cams. timing)

Use the performace guide on the mainpage, it is a great guide to get you started. Welcome to the dsm family man

Oh, and out of all the forums i've seen, this the best!!! There is a ton of info on tap by people with actual experience

 

[pushnlacs]

in the tuning guide it says the evo3 16g is good for 375 hp max, thats at the wheels right??? cause if so thats definitly sounds good(for now) and i will spend the time and money to do this right and tune it to perfection.

a stock gsx sounds fun right now cause i loved it when i drove one, like i said it felt faster than my 300hp v8 and was alot more fun. my plan is actually to start going to school at uti and getting the car now so i can work on it as i learn more and more in school and then when its time to find a job i can use it as my resume

oh and kris u still drives yours alot on the street?? does it still respond good enough to be fun on the street from a complete stop??just cause theres something i dont like the idea of a 600hp car that feels like a 100hp car when u hit the gas when the light turns green. i guess i need to ride in a big turbo car some how. but gutting it, hell yea ill gut mine even with just 300hp. rear seat(no need, if she likes the car that much i got a bed) spear tire+jack(aaa) stero(ill have my engine to listen to) probaly even pull the headlinear and carpeting and paint the interior to match the exterior cause itll be bad ass plus im not looking at the floor or cieling when im driving anyway.

 

[drivemusicnow]

in the tuning guide it says the evo3 16g is good for 375 hp max, thats at the wheels right??? cause if so thats definitly sounds good(for now) and i will spend the time and money to do this right and tune it to perfection.

a stock gsx sounds fun right now cause i loved it when i drove one, like i said it felt faster than my 300hp v8 and was alot more fun. my plan is actually to start going to school at uti and getting the car now so i can work on it as i learn more and more in school and then when its time to find a job i can use it as my resume

oh and kris u still drives yours alot on the street?? does it still respond good enough to be fun on the street from a complete stop??just cause theres something i dont like the idea of a 600hp car that feels like a 100hp car when u hit the gas when the light turns green. i guess i need to ride in a big turbo car some how. but gutting it, hell yea ill gut mine even with just 300hp. rear seat(no need, if she likes the car that much i got a bed) spear tire+jack(aaa) stero(ill have my engine to listen to) probaly even pull the headlinear and carpeting and paint the interior to match the exterior cause itll be bad ass plus im not looking at the floor or cieling when im driving anyway.

thats all well and good.. until you drive it everday. If this really is going to be your everyday car, remember that with every modification you make. DSMs are great, fun cars. But when you're putting out 300+ AWHP... shit breaks. if you're ok with that, then no problem go ahead..

My personal opinion is get a comfortable car for roadtrips, daily driving, commuting, dates, then have a DSM as fully stripped and boosted weekend fun car. I'm sorry but i don't want to hear a 98+ db engine for 6 hours driving to school and back. or for an hour and a half each day driving to work and back. Thats just me. and many will disagree that drive 300+ hp cars. But if you look closely at who has problems and who doesn't.. you'll see that the people willing to spend twice as much to do it right the first time end up better off in the end, and have much more reliable cars.. its the people who think they can spend very little and get a lot that are broken down every weekend. (which is what my car will be... but its not my DD... so i don't care)


oh.. and READ everything you can... even if it doesn't exactly pertain to your situation.. it'll still help you.

Check out the T04B v-trim as another great option vs the evo3.. .theres a HUGE thread about it with lots of good info

 

[drivemusicnow]

.. oh.. and don't bank on a tuned 4 cyl turbo with 300hp as a resume... get some real experience among as many different cars as possible.

 

[pushnlacs]

well theres alot of tuning shops around here so thats why id say my 400hp gsx would work as a resume. i mean if a performance shops sees iv built a bad ass well tuned street car, that will do alot to make me look like a good canidite for the job. plus im ganna take the hot rod/superstreet high performance course.

as for listening to a loud engine, i welcome it. and i dont drive for more than an hour (if that) at a time any way. i appreciate your advice about a down time car but thing is honestly the only reason im going to get a dsm is because i can use it as a daily driver through rain and snow since its awd. if i was going to just have a "summer time" car for fun it wouldnt be a dsm it would be a 240sx w/sr but i dont want to deal with rwd through rain and snow again(had to with my 5.0) id love a fully striped 2500lb 400hp 240sx hell eventually take it to 2.2l and 500hp(10sec summer time car) but like i said i rather be able to enjoy my money everyday not just sunny days you know?? so a low-mid 12sec daily driver sounds cool.

thanks for all your advice now i just need to find a stock 92-94 gsx in good condition. for some reason theres none in chicago land oh and what would u call good miles on a 1g? meaning if taken car of the engine should still have alot of life left???

 

[drivemusicnow]

... i guess i mis stated it a little bit too.. don't count on a 300hp 1g eclipse as your only mode of transportation...espcially cause you're probably not going to have a huge cash flow while going to school it will be over 10 years old... and shit breaks... just know that ahead of time

 

[pushnlacs]

300whp isnt that much,is a dsm really that problem prone?? i mean if built right you should be able to have a perfectly reliable 500hp car if you do it right. plus it wont be 300hp instantly it will take a while doing one little thing at a time.

one thing i have just thought of is a dsm with 400hp at the crank will get killed by a rwd car with 400hp at the crank???? i just realized that a 400hp rwd car is making 340 at the wheels for a awd car it would need to produce 450hp to make 340 or so at the wheels. my point is the response of the 350whp dsm will suck compared to the reponse of the 350whp rwd car right???since the dsm needs a way bigger turbo to make the same power????damn that sucks. i guess my new goal isnt 400hp at the crank but 340awhp is that possible with full boost befor 3500rpm??? probly not right???

 

[drivemusicnow]

If you talking specifically drag racing, the reason why awd dsms can have great times is the launch.. with a dsm you do a quick slip, or drop at peak HP rpms. this allows you to JUMP off the line much faster than any rwd.. the problem, is the parsitic losses in an AWD drivetrain are about 5-10% more. so think same engine in a AWD car weighing 3000 lbs, as in a rwd car weighing 3000 lbs, all things being equal, the AWD car will launch MUCH better, the rwd will have a better top end, and better acceleration at high speeds.

Heres the key. if you're building the car, and it is your daily driver, you'll have to spend more money, and do more "complete" modification.. which = expensive... i dont' know how much $$$ you have to play around with, but what you should really do is decide on a immediate budget, medium term budget, and end goal. like for my car.. I am going to be spending 2000 give or take a couple hundred on performance parts, about 600 on maintenence. this would be my "short term" budget.. i want to end up with 350 AWHP... i can't get that on the short term budget, but everything i will buy will support at least that later.. so i'm not wasting money... and this is just for my progect car. which = cheap way out

 

[drivemusicnow]

and gearing changes everything... and the reason the DSM felt faster than the caddie, is cause its smaller, louder, and totally different suspension setups

 

[pushnlacs]

yea i know it felt faster cause its smaller and handles better(louder though no) but my point on that was just that it was more fun.

but about awhp and rwhp, thing is a 400bhp rwd car that ways the same as a gsx should run a mid 12 since it has 340rwhp but a 400bhp gsx will only be making 280 or so awhp so that means it will only run a low 13?? theres no way a 280awhp gsx is ganna hit mid 12's??at least thats what i heard. it will be a street car so 0-60 is pretty important and a 280awhp gsx should do 0-60 as good if not better than a 340rwhp car right? but then the loss of hp to the awd will hurt ya.

 

[drivemusicnow]

yea i know it felt faster cause its smaller and handles better(louder though no) but my point on that was just that it was more fun.

but about awhp and rwhp, thing is a 400bhp rwd car that ways the same as a gsx should run a mid 12 since it has 340rwhp but a 400bhp gsx will only be making 280 or so awhp so that means it will only run a low 13?? theres no way a 280awhp gsx is ganna hit mid 12's??at least thats what i heard. it will be a street car so 0-60 is pretty important and a 280awhp gsx should do 0-60 as good if not better than a 340rwhp car right? but then the loss of hp to the awd will hurt ya.

Do it and find out.. bench racing = mods biggest hate

see what other people have done and for how much, and where they've gotten with it

 

[pushnlacs]

i dont know any one with a performance car to find out what theyve done im the only one really into performance cars that i know. and i dont want to just by a dsm to put all this money into it(cause i dont have all this money) just to run 13's thats why im trying to find out everything i can. im not going to by a car until i know it will meet my needs.

 

[dsm10sec]

I only have 10gs into my car INCLUDING the car and I'm running 10s.. It's not that hard, I'd say aside from the twin turbo V6s, DSMs get the best bang for buck for bolt ons. (I only have bolt ons on my car, NO internals WHAT-SO-EVER; how long it will run I have no idea.) If you want nothing to smoke you (except those select few), get a Buschur Racing 20g, that's what I have.. Full boost in mid 3000s and till redline it FLIES.

 

[pushnlacs]

10's are cool but your car probly sucks on the street right??? i know some will say the dont mind lag at all but i think i will. i dont want to have to floor my car just to get some power or have to wait 10secounds befor i get some get up and go.

i dont even need 10's id just like 350whp but im not sure if i can do that without getting alot of lag. the t25 stock hit full boost at 3000rpm right??how bout in an automatic??its slower to spool right?? all id know is i liked the stock response and would like 350whp with the same throttle response.

 

[igopoopy]

10's are cool but your car probly sucks on the street right??? i know some will say the dont mind lag at all but i think i will. i dont want to have to floor my car just to get some power or have to wait 10secounds befor i get some get up and go.

i dont even need 10's id just like 350whp but im not sure if i can do that without getting alot of lag. the t25 stock hit full boost at 3000rpm right??how bout in an automatic??its slower to spool right?? all id know is i liked the stock response and would like 350whp with the same throttle response.

get a Ball-Bearing turbo
or you can get a stroker that will help by 500 rpms faster spool

 

[V8HAHA]

I am having a hard time following your posts here dude, what is it that you want to know? Even on say a SR20, turbo lag is gunna get you, thats why you keep the rpm's up and not worry about it.

Your hp calculations seem a little off, I could be wrong. I don't think 400 hp at the crank converts to 280whp, There is roughly a 16% (I don't remember where I heard this) powertrain loss to compensate for AWD. That means 400 crank hp is 336whp. 336... or 350whp in your case, is easily attained with good tuning. Its all in the tuning. You don't even have to upgrade the turbo if you are ok with nitrous. The EVOIII will suit you just fine without juice though. Basic bolt ons will get you 350 awhp.

 

[thegreatms]

you have to remember that the drivetrain loss is not a linear figure. What i mean is, as hp goes up the % lost goes down. So at stock you might have 30% for AWD and 20% for FWD but at 400 crank hp (2 times stock) you might have 20% AWD and 13 % FWD. (rough numbers)

This is the main reason most people here use "at wheel" horsepower, it is what you measure on the dyno, and it is what you use at the track and on the street. Trying to get back to engine power just adds error into the number.


One more thing, you have to remember that it is all in the tuning and support mods. I bet there are people out there with evo3 16g's at 400 awhp. Conversely there are definitly people with 50 trims or bigger turbos that only have 250 awhp.


I think the evo3 turbo is best for you, if setup right its spool is only a bit worse than stock, for up to twice the power; it is a simple install, and based on how much boost you want to run you can slowly add the support mods.