1992 AWD turbo jumped time

[wgmiller]

I have a 1992 Laser AWD turbo 5spd with 126k actual. I am in the business and ordered and sold this car new out of the dsm plant's excess inventory in summer '92. But I have had the car for many years and drive it very little. It jumped time last January, at which time our shop put a new belt and tensioner on and set time. For some reason I have barely driven it this year, and it only has a couple hundred miles on it since that job. Two weeks ago I drove it briefly and it exhibited these symptoms:

-Would not idle properly
-Had very little power, would not create very many rpms
-no boost pressure
-ticking noise in the engine that sounded a little worse than the usual lifter noise

So I made it out to the lot with it and the same mechanic as before checked it out. He said it had jumped time again. He said the first time it was only maybe a half or one tooth off, but this time it had jumped several teeth. I asked him today if he thought the valves were bent and he did not think so, but he thinks that the head has some sort of problem. We both figure that we might as well drop a long block in it because of all the various problems associated with the head on these dsms, the age and mileage, and the fact that the tranny hasn't been doing very well for several years. Third gear is pretty bad, and downshifting is very difficult. So I am looking at picking up a low-mileage jdm drivetrain and doing a swap to take care of the whole thing and keep the car, even though it is in desperate need of a paint job as well. I have had the car for 9.5 years already. In a few years it will be an antique, so why give up on it now?
Any suggestions or comments more than welcome. I have read all kinds of related and unrelated material here, all good stuff.

 

[zachyd23]

Check vacuum lines for the boost pressure ( make sure all clamps are tight ) , also whats wrong with the idle? Does it rev up high while in park and neutral, then in drive way down?

 

[92AWDHX40]

Do a compression test first of all and see how bad it is chances are bent valves jumped time, big problem simple as that. Let us know what you find, and report those numbers.

 

[bryanwheat]

Do a leakdown test on it. There aren't any big issues with the heads on these cars. If you don't overheat the hell out of it or break a timing belt than it will be fine or hundreds of thousands of miles. Why not just re-set the timing, check the compression and see whats up with it. It is WAY cheaper and easier than buying an engine and throwing it in because is MIGHT need an engine.

 

[duecevr4]

I really wouldn't get rid of that engine. I set the eccentric to compress that tensioner all the way. That tensioner can cause problems and if compressed too fast, can cause it to prematurely fail. I'd do a leak-down test to c if it has bent valves before I say it needs an engine. And I've got used fwd & awd trannies; just down in Atlanta, so you'd have to pay for shipping.

 

[bigdoug3022]

+1 on the leakdown

 

[duecevr4]

well, when 2 people tell you to do a leakdown test @ THE EXACT SAME TIME, sounds like a good answer

Btw, compression test probably won't tell you anything about bent valves, that's more for piston/ring issues.

 

[92AWDHX40]

Hey your learning thats where we all start.

 

[jgore1989]

plus 1 on the timing belt tensioner. also did you ever check the specs on the timing belt pulleys. i wouldnt go pulling the engine out when its only the top end. also i would do as the others say and correct the timing and check for compression.

duecevr4. i beg to differ on the compression testing. if you have bent valves you will have very low compression depending on how bent they are.

 

[wgmiller]

Thanks for all the input, gentlemen. I am going to have my mechanic read all the suggestions and see what he thinks the next step is. I am not sure that he has not already taken some of these measures.

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

Btw, compression test probably won't tell you anything about bent valves, that's more for piston/ring issues.

What? ... WHAT?

You realize that valves opening and closing, seating properly, and being in good condition are all factored into the compression phase of the stroke? If there is a bent valve and they are not sealing properly then you will see shot compression as compression is leaking past the valves. I mean - I'm so dumbfounded by this for some reason....What?

Thanks for all the input, gentlemen. I am going to have my mechanic read all the suggestions and see what he thinks the next step is. I am not sure that he has not already taken some of these measures.

If the vehicle jumped time yet again, then I would have to say that the timing was not set properly to begin with - be it from misalignment of TDC VS the CAMs themselves, one of the CAM dowels being at the 6-o'clock position (or both cams) which could make one appear to have jumped several teeth, or the tensioner pulley was not adjusted properly. Even the Auto Tensioner itself could be shot.

With it jumping so quickly, I would be one to say that the tensioner was likely misadjusted, leaving too much slack in the belt. When the vehicle was started - time jumped. That's simply an educated guess based on what you described happening and my experience performing timing belt change jobs on these vehicles.

Just to note - You have my dream car by the way. If you don't want to fix it, bring it to me, take my 2G home, and I'll fix it.

 

[wgmiller]

The car jumped time again after about 170 miles, to be as accurate as I can be about it from our records. Just long enough that as far as I could tell, it was running normally during that time.

I read some of your posts already and noticed that you are in the neighborhood. Thanks for the input. I am going to show your post to our tech.
I don't want to put an engine in the Laser before it needs one, but I had expected to have to do it in a few years or sooner, especially with the transmission getting steadily worse.

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

Sounds great! Get back to us on what the outcome is and what you decide to do!

 

[duecevr4]

I'm not disagreeing about the compression test. It's VERY possible that a compression test MAY NOT (i did say probably) show slightly bent valves. I've WITNESSED good compression #'s when the valves were bent. A leakdown test is harder to do because it takes a good ear, but it is a better indicator of bent valves than a compression test. Seen a lot for a newbie

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

I'm not disagreeing about the compression test. It's VERY possible that a compression test MAY NOT (i did say probably) show slightly bent valves. I've WITNESSED good compression #'s when the valves were bent. A leakdown test is harder to do because it takes a good ear, but it is a better indicator of bent valves than a compression test. Seen a lot for a newbie

Not an issue in the least. There could be a chance that bent valves seal - But most of the time they won't. Then again, most of the time when a timing belt strips it's teeth at the crank doing 50+mph, the cam gears don't stop at 6:00 and save your valves. That one's on me. Hahah.

These cars do the damnedest things.

 

[fastgsx99]

Not an issue in the least. There could be a chance that bent valves seal - But most of the time they won't. Then again, most of the time when a timing belt strips it's teeth at the crank doing 50+mph, the cam gears don't stop at 6:00 and save your valves. That one's on me. Hahah.

These cars do the damnedest things.

I had the same situation happen to me some time ago and I ended up parting the car out since the repair was so exppensive.

 

[erock1399]

it seem like u may have bent a vale most of the time that happens when the belt jumps

 

[bryanwheat]

I'm not disagreeing about the compression test. It's VERY possible that a compression test MAY NOT (i did say probably) show slightly bent valves. I've WITNESSED good compression #'s when the valves were bent. A leakdown test is harder to do because it takes a good ear, but it is a better indicator of bent valves than a compression test. Seen a lot for a newbie

I just got done rebuilding a head that had valves that sealed perfect with the springs installed but once i went to check them they were bent a tiny amount.

 

[dsmking21]

i would also say that the valves are bent, this just happened to me in my 92 awd laser a few weeks ago lost 14 valves due to a faulty tensioner. i wouldnt go as far as swaping out the motor but as said i would check out the head for any damage that could of been done i hope all is well and you get her running again soon.

 

[fastgsx99]

bent valves... machine shops charge about 45.00 to check the whole head.

 

[lasercrazy1313]

I wouldn't even bother running a compression test just pull the head and replace it! 10/10 jumped timing equals bent valves. I work in a shop everyday and have replaced over 20 different heads this year just from jumped timing!!

 

[wgmiller]

It's been a while, with the '92 Laser on the lift all that time, but we swapped out the drivetrain for a low-mileage jdm. The mechanic had to swap out a LOT of things off the two engines because the imported accessories were slightly different. But he got it together and got it running. Soooo....

It seems to run great, plenty of power, and idles nicely at about 800 rpms. I don't take that for granted anymore. But it has a pretty bad whining noise that increases in pitch with speed. We haven't narrowed it down yet, maybe it is in the transfer case, maybe a wheel bearing (although it does not sound exactly like that to me), with a constant noise like that it should not be too difficult to find.
I have an engine with timing issues, imported accessories, a couple of extra clutches, and a rebuildable 5-speed transmission, all for sale if anyone needs it.

Thanks to all for your input.