16g in a 2g tips

[flacopower]

just got done doing an install on a friends gst and just about everything went wrong.. we learned a lot of things the hard way today.
these aren't tips so much as REQUIREMENTS that one could easily forget while planning an install.. read this and make sure the same doesn't happen to you.

PB BLAST THE SHIT OUT OF ALL 'HOT' BOLTS:
thankfully, we pb blasted the crap out of the turbo to mani, o2 housing, and dp bolts the night before so they came off really really easily..

REMOVE RADIATOR:
its only four bolts, you have the coolant drained anyways, and the space is helpful. if you don't you may end up like us: done with the install, filling the coolant only to find you have a gaping leak that can't be fixed.

DON'T SKIMP ON LITTLE THINGS I.E. NEW WASHERS, LOCKTITE, FITTINGS, BOLTS, AND GASKETS:
if you don't buy a new exhaust manifold to head gasket, you can't remove the manifold. thats a problem because the t 25 compressor will hit the front torque mount due to having one stud that will still be in the exhaust manifold. replace it with a bolt so that next time you remove it, it isn't a big PITA... if you dont use two cup washers for the turbo to mani bolts, you risk having one of the bolts back out on you.. if you are putting a new fitting on, put a little bit of teflon tape on it so that it doesn't leak. be careful because the little things will get you!!

TEST FIT J PIPE BEFORE INSTALL TO ENSURE FITMENT:
my friend bought a j pipe 'brand new' that someone had sold him as a dejon pipe one, when in reality they had welded it themselves. they sent the wrong gasket, the wrong bolts, and the way it was welded we couldn't get one of the bolts in because it kept hitting the pipe. thus we had to spend 45 min with a circular file to make the bastard fit.

DON'T WASTE MONEY ON WATER LINES:
my friend bought an 'install kit' from slowboy, and neither one of their water lines fit.. had to end up reusing the stock and cutting off an inch of one line..

HAVE COPY OF INSTALL GUIDE ON HAND:
pretty self explanatory, but we got stuck on things, but we could refer to the manual so we were ok



thats all i can think of right now.. feel free to add any other tips you have to make installation go smoother..

 

[lordnikon_04]

Here's one tip, make the job a whole lot simpler and just go with a BigT28. You can get the same power, faster spool-up, and all the piping and lines are the exact same. I for one cannot argue with that.

 

[flacopower]

You can get the same power,

really? idk about that.. wasn't my car anyways so i was just helping along

 

[lordnikon_04]

It's all good, i was just giving another option to others that might read through this. On my brothers 97 TSi he had an FP BigT28 ported by them and he was able to hit the same power levels as his best friends 99 Eclipse with and EVO3 16G. Oh, and the 28 hit max boost, hp, AND torque earlier and also held all three higher and longer on the dyno. Hence why i am getting that turbo in my GSX when i get the money.

 

[romeen]

To make future removal easier use copper or nickel based anti-sieze on the threads of all bolts/studs in the "hot" area (manifold, turbo, O2 housing).

Replace the one turbo-manifold stud with a bolt.

Don't neglect the importance of the cup washers between the heads of the turbo bolts and the exhaust manifold to prevent the bolts from backing out. Two stacked washers per bolt.

 

[Eastwood95]

It's all good, i was just giving another option to others that might read through this. On my brothers 97 TSi he had an FP BigT28 ported by them and he was able to hit the same power levels as his best friends 99 Eclipse with and EVO3 16G. Oh, and the 28 hit max boost, hp, AND torque earlier and also held all three higher and longer on the dyno. Hence why i am getting that turbo in my GSX when i get the money.

The T-28 is more expensive than a 16g.......and not many people use them.

How many can you find on www.dsmtimes.org ?

 

[lordnikon_04]

There may not be any high times on dsmtimes but that doesn't disprove the fact that they are well worth the money spent. And they are a GREAT sleeper turbo as well.

 

[flacopower]

lets keep this a thread about helpful tips for those who are looking to attempt this install, and want to know what to expect.. t28 vs 16g has been discussed many many times before..

 

[Eastwood95]

I'll stick with MHI turbo's......4 life

 

[Thomas91169]

T28 is more expensive turbo vs turbo than a E16G

no T28 will be able to come close to 40lbs/min+ of airflow, nor will a t28 be as efficient as a E16G after 20psi.

switching to a MHI style turbo may be a little difficult and time consuming, but once you do the changeover, your options are pretty much limitless, from then on almost every other turbo is a direct bolton affair.

the above tips are all great IMO, though i got the install kit from ExtremePSI, and instead of taking off the radiator, i took off the turbo and manifold together. however after that all the smaller MHI turbos can be taken off without removing the manifold and pulled out from under the car with a little finesse.

 

[flacopower]

lets keep this a thread about helpful tips for those who are looking to attempt this install, and want to know what to expect.. t28 vs 16g has been discussed many many times before..

wow guys. i think if they are reading a thread about installing a 16 in a 2g they have already made up their minds.. jeez if you want i can start another thread for your argument

 

[kmoore]

Flaco- did you take off the t-25 and the manifold off together like Thomas did? Or did you leave the manifold bolted to the head and just unbolt the turbo? This is a great thread BTW if it stays on topic

 

[Eastwood95]

I've always taken the manifold/turbo off together.....
You should break loose the manifold/turbo bolts before taking them off though, unless you have some kind of vice

I've never had to take out the radiator, but I always take out the fans....

 

[flacopower]

Flaco- did you take off the t-25 and the manifold off together like Thomas did? Or did you leave the manifold bolted to the head and just unbolt the turbo? This is a great thread BTW if it stays on topic

like idiots, we left the mani on the car.. the prob with doing it that way is that the t25 is attached to the manifold by 3 bolts and one stud. we figured we didnt need to remove the mani since we could just drop the turbo straight down. but with the mani on the car, the wastegate hits the front tourque mount. we tried manuvering the t25 around it, but the stud would not allow it since it hadnt cleared the mani yet. so since we didnt have an exhaust manifold gasket we had to unscrew the stud while the turbo was in the car. we ended up using a vice grip and due to the limited amount of space we ended up slipping and hit and cracked the radiator..

 

[siceclipse]

thanks for the hints/tips.

ill be taking the FPBigT-28 outta my car for the Evo16G in a week or two. so ill keep that 3 bolts 1 stud reminder in mind.

I have access to a lift tho. if i drop out the cross member and take out the front motor mount do i need to worry about it still?
I wouldnt think so.

 

[flacopower]

thanks for the hints/tips.

ill be taking the FPBigT-28 outta my car for the Evo16G in a week or two. so ill keep that 3 bolts 1 stud reminder in mind.

I have access to a lift tho. if i drop out the cross member and take out the front motor mount do i need to worry about it still?
I wouldnt think so.

yeah we did it on a lift too.. why you would want to drop the cross member, take out the front motor mount, support the motor/tranny with jacks as opposed to just unbolting the exhaust mani i don't know but i guess it would work that way too. if you are really opposed to remove the exhaust mani i guess you could just unbolt the wastegate since thats the only thing that hits the crossmember

also i just got a txt from the guy who owns the car (we had a falling out not related to the install and dont speak).. he says he is leaking oil, and the car smokes everytime he starts it. i think the oil feed line is leaking oil and dripping oil on the hot exhaust pipes causing smoke.. when we first started the car the line was leaking really bad, and we thought we had fixed it but i guess not. i don't really care since he is a ****, just wanted to remind yall to double, triple check EVERYTHING once done since i obviously didn't

 

[kmoore]

Flaco- in your first section of tips you said to just go ahead and get rid of the stud all together and replace it with a bolt. Is there any downside to this?

 

[romeen]

Flaco- in your first section of tips you said to just go ahead and get rid of the stud all together and replace it with a bolt. Is there any downside to this?

The only one that comes to mind for me is if you are trying to install the turbo with the manifold already bolted to the head then it will be a little bit harder to align the turbo with the manifold. But I just get under the car and lift the turbo up to the manifold while a helper is pushing a bolt down through it for me to line it up with.

 

[flacopower]

Flaco- in your first section of tips you said to just go ahead and get rid of the stud all together and replace it with a bolt. Is there any downside to this?

to be honest with you none come to mind.. even the aftermarket vendors sell 4 bolts in their kits. that stud was such a PITA.. i wish we had an exhaust manifold gasket. would have made life a milion times easier. do not forget to buy one!!!!

 

[kmoore]

I'm sorry but I got one more question for you. Is it necessary to buy an exhaust manifold to head gasket? (I'm assuming when you say, "don't forget to buy an exhaust manifold gasket" your talking about the manifold to turbo gasket?)

 

[romeen]

I'm sorry but I got one more question for you. Is it necessary to buy an exhaust manifold to head gasket? (I'm assuming when you say, "don't forget to buy an exhaust manifold gasket" your talking about the manifold to turbo gasket?)

Ideally it is nice to use all new gaskets. But I have reused the dual layer stainless steel gaskets without any problems. Just visually inspect it's general condition to make sure it looks good. I also clean the soot buildup off of the head and exhaust manifold flange with steel wool before reinstalling. I don't if it's necessary but I feel better doing it.

There is also a 4 layer manifold-head gasket which works very well. I believe this is what is used on EVO's from the factory. This is what I am using now.

 

[daren_p]

I've removed the t25 twice & installed the evoIII so far. Never bothered to take the rad out, just the passenger side fan, this allows more then enough access. Never removed the exhaust mani with the turbo as one piece (though have taken both out seperatly). Like other just removed the front motor torque mount (you shouldn't need to brace the motor if your just removing the front torque mount, if your motor moves you have other problems) & slipped the turbo out from under the car. Have always removed it with the O2 housing still attached as those bolts are a pain to get at when installed on the car & I don't have a proper O2 socket. I think its much easier to seperate out on the bench. Replace the turbo/mani stud with a bolt, just makes things easier. Use high temp antiseize on all the bolts (RRE sells some nice 2600F stuff), make sure you use only new crush washers. If the turbo to mani bolt are old, replace them, it will save you a headache in the long run. Make sure you install the turbo to mani bolt washers faceing the correct direction (may not look like there's a difference but if you look closely there is a difference between the top & bottom of the washer). Factory 2g waterlines can be easily tweeked to work, just cut off the mounting tabs. I found mine worked best when left on the same side as factory, just flipped their direction. You will probably need some 3/8" rubber hose to extend the front water line. Thats just a couple things off the top of my head. Torque everything to factory spec, especially the turbo to mani bolts. While you have it all apart you need to get the larger 7cm turbo to mani gasket & new turbo to O2 housing gasket because you are of course porting everything

lordnikon_04 If you can show me some T28's that push 44 lb/min, I'll believe you that a T28 can make as much power as an evoIII

One other thing to add, teflon tape usually isn't the best choice as a sealent as little pieces of the tape can break off & clog things up. Best to use pipe dope or other liquid sealents such as permatex high temp, etc.

 

[motomattxxx]

Yes its 44 lbs per min on the evo3. Alot of guys seem to forget that.

 

[lordnikon_04]

Just so everyone knows, i didn't mean to turn this thread into a debate between e316G and T28. I may not be able to show that it flows 44lb/min but i have seen my brothers dynosheets and timeslips compared to his best friends and those showed me that it would be well worth the extra 200-300 bucks for the 28, and it has a T25 housing so even the best dsm tuner will never know it's upgraded just by looking at it, unlike the evo3. Anyways, that's all i have to say and also want to state that i loved the evo3 on my 90 GSX before i sold it and i was never happier with that car until after the turbo swap.

 

[jasteel13]

16g ftw... every install is gonna have some problems.. you have a dsm.. this is only the beginning..