yet another electrical woe

[Anubis_4_99]

I'm just going to copy and paste here so i can get everything written quickly.

Having same issues as before, along with some new ones. Haven't done the external regulator yet but plan to this weekend since i have time off, i will be buying it tomorrow.

Anything you guys can think of would help greatly.

This post is going to be long winded, and filled with alot of useful, and possibly not so useful info, but at this point i don't know what is relevant, so bare with me.

I have been having a charging system issue ever since i bought the car. It will drive fine, no issues for weeks, and sometimes even a month at a time. Then it will also trip the battery light every time you start the car and go past 2.5KRPMS.

About two months ago i was about 200 miles from home and the car began registering it was overheating, bogging, loosing power electrically, and anytime i pushed the brakes it would nearly shut down completely. Luckily i was driving home behind my boss, so we pulled off and did some trouble shooting and i found that my intake ground wire had corroded so badly that it had separated from the intake. Also worthy to note that my battery was bubbling from the maintinance caps, so its fair to assume it was being overcharged big time.

I had some 8G amp wire in my car because i always seem to carry some for some reason. So i fashioned a quicky ground wire and this solved all of those problems and car ran beautifully all the way home.

A week and a half later i was out of town again and the wife was driving the car. About 7PM i get this call saying that she was taking off from a stop light, and suddenly the lights got bright, then dimmed to normal and she now has no lights and the wipers were going by themselves. So i tell her to park it and I'll check it when i get home.

I get home, start it up and everything but the headlights is normal. Lowbeams a no go, highbeams work just fine.

Run to walmart to get new bulbs and crack open the housings and discover both bulbs are burnt out, and the driver side one had literally exploded. Replaced them and everything ran fine for a week or so. Then about 9PM one rainy night my battery light turns on and my lights start dimming.

I run home and park her, next day remove alt and get it bench tested. Tests bad, so i replace it and all is good again.

Fast forward to tonight, the wife is driving home from school and i get another call. Lights gone like before, wipers going by themselves and getting faster with engine rpms (this part is questionable because it didn't do it once i got to it) but this time indeed the wipers were running with the switch in the off position and i had no low beam headlights. High beams still function perfectly. Also worthy to note that the wiper switch still functioned to control the speed of the wipers, just wouldn't shut them off. I checked the fuse and there was a 30A fuse in place of the 20A that is supposed to be there. So i pulled the fuse out.

So i break out my meter and start poking around. Battery is charging at 14.5 volts, with occasional spikes to 15. Turned off battery sits at 14.2 volts.

I checked bulbs as best i can when its dark out with little light, and they appeared good but i can't say for sure. Visually inspected the fuses and they appeared fine (could only find a high beam fuse, anyone know if there is a lowbeam fuse?)

Relay functions fine, BUT, I'm getting 14.3 volts on two pins of my relay socket in the fuse box. Normal?

Also once i shut the car off, my tail light relay began clicking very quickly, i pulled the relay, and plugged it back in and it stopped. And didn't do it again the entire half hour i've been out there checking what i can.

My intake ground is still holding fine, although it shows a little corrosion so I'm going to clean that up a little bit, put a ring terminal on it, and see if that shows any improvement.

I have plans to do the external voltage regulator mod tomorrow or this weekend as i believe my internal one is bad, but at this point i'm not sure if it will fix all my issues.

I'm really hoping i don't end up needing to rip into the harness, because if i do i will probably just source a new one because i HATE messing with wiring harnesses.

So recap.

Headlights blown, wipers running by themselves, and alternator possibly overcharging.

Any and all info, and paths to check this will be explored.

This is my DD and i have a 300 mile trip to make next week so any and all help is welcome!

 

[Rsawd95dsm]

To start I would take the battery in to an automotive store and get it tested to make sure that it test out ok. Then secondly I would check the spark plug wires and the coils system for any cracks or bare wire to make that the volts and amps coming for the wires are not grounding themselves into another wire. And Thirdly I would check all the rest of the grounds on the car to make sure that they are not corroded and are all connected.

 

[Anubis_4_99]

Battery so far as of a week ago tests fine, but i'll have it tested tomorrow while im picking up pads and the new voltage regulator.

Wires are fairly new and coil housing isn't cracked or anything, but i'll check both those as well. And i plan on checking through the grounds tomorrow as well, thanks for the ideas though, i'll post results once i check them out.

 

[That1Talon]

Your new alternator brand new or remanned? If I had to guess I would think wiring somewhere was bad i would get the alternator tested, granted you just bought it but if there is messed up wiring somewhere it may have messed the new alternator up too. Just my .02 though

 

[Anubis_4_99]

new alternator as of three weeks ago max. it's a re-manned from Oriellys under lifetime warranty.

While i'm not ruling out a bad alternator, this is now my third alternator in nearly as many months. So i'm leaning towards something causing them to fail. I've never had this bad of luck with re-manned alternators before over my 40+ previous cars. Almost a third of which i had to do an alternator at one time or another.

 

[That1Talon]

That's what i was saying get that alternator checked if it is messed up too then the wiring is bad somewhere causing them to go that would be the first thing i would check.

 

[Slo2gen]

Some relays are wired like that, pretty much means its a ground controlled relay. How are the grounds on the motor/chassis?

 

[1983gsp]

Take each ground wire off and clean them up then reinstall. Symptoms point to a bad ground. Then clean the battery terminals. Corrosion inside the terminals does the same thing. Don't look at it and think they are fine. Really clean them up with a wire battery brush.

Voltage spikes blow bulbs and relays. Bad grounds cause the regulator to see below nominal voltage at the signal wire triggering an over voltage condition. Another consequence is the ecu will fry.

Another test is to get your dvom "digital volt ohm meter" and with the car running, test the voltage drop to the battery from the alternator. Do this by measuring volts from the alternator positive to the battery positive ....any more than .5v is cause for concern. Start checking for bad connections and faulty wiring from the alt to the battery.

Good luck.

 

[Anubis_4_99]

Bought the external regulator and pigtail, will be wiring that up tomorrow along with checking grounds and what not. Battery was checked to be in good condition.

I clean my terminals at least once a month, and just did two days ago, so i know they are in good condition, plus i just replaced them last month.

Bulbs were blown, filaments inside had separated at the top where i couldn't see them. Last time i checked the voltage drop i'm pretty sure it was less then .5 but i'll double check that tomorrow too. And awesome info about the regulator, didnt know a bad ground could cause the over charging condition in a way like that.

 

[Slo2gen]

So what about your grounds, you said you cleaned the terminals but how about the grounds on the rest of the engine bay. Small one on back of intake manifold, big one on drivers strut tower, and while your at it, why not add a few more, certainly wouldn't hurt at this point.

 

[Anubis_4_99]

So what about your grounds, you said you cleaned the terminals but how about the grounds on the rest of the engine bay. Small one on back of intake manifold, big one on drivers strut tower, and while your at it, why not add a few more, certainly wouldn't hurt at this point.

Said about three seperate times i'm going to go over those today. I'll be headed out to the car in about an hour to start wrenching on her.

I've already mentioned the small one on the intake which i had to make a new one out of 8G wire. I haven't seen one on the strut tower though, where on the strut tower is it located?

 

[Slo2gen]

its the main battery ground, then their should be another one down around the airbox.

 

[Anubis_4_99]

its the main battery ground, then their should be another one down around the airbox.

Cool i'll check those out today, family stuff kept me from installing the regulator the other day so i'll be doing that and checking/cleaning grounds as well.

Will post results.

Also i have a multi meter, is there a setting i can use to tell how well my ground is connecting? (I've only really ever used the voltage setting to test voltage when having issues.)

 

[CODE4]

Also i have a multi meter, is there a setting i can use to tell how well my ground is connecting? (I've only really ever used the voltage setting to test voltage when having issues.)

https://www.google.com/search?q=how to test resistance using dmm&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

 

[Slo2gen]

When testing how good your ground is you can use a couple settings, one is "difference of potential" aka using a DC volt to see any difference in power due to a bad ground, or what I recommend resistance using the Ohm selection, and you should have less than an Ohm of resistance from your battery and your ground point.

 

[bullettdsm]

Finally read through this (I saw who was posting and didn't bother because a couple of them are pretty good at what they know,).

I think you are right about the regulator. Its sounds like classic overcharging symptons. You shouldn't be spiking to 15v anyway. When you are getting that bright light, that is probably a spike (they can spike up to 17-18 volts. I had one that was spiking up to 17.5. Burnt up quite a bit of stuff. Gauges etc.). Obviously, with putting a new/rebuilt in there, you are making sure that the voltage is strong, .

As you know, our regulators are in the ECU, therefore you could put 100 alternators in there and it wouldn't help the regulator problem. I suspect that once you do the regulator, the problems will calm down. That doesn't mean they will be fixed. It would just mean there would be no more additional problems. You would then have to chase wires and problems until you got them all (it took me about 4 months to find all the problems that happened to the car I got).

Electrical problems can be tough to decipher from a distance because of their finicky nature (sometimes its happening, sometimes its not. Sometimes that part is within spec, sometimes its not etc.). So do the regulator first and see how that helps.

MB

 

[Anubis_4_99]

Ok, external regulator in. New problem.

I'm charging at 17.9V! At idle!

I confirmnd this with my meter, as well as autozones tester (they are about 3 blocks from me).

I had them warranty the regulator in hopes of a failure in the unit, and a no go. Still charging at 17.9V

Battery tested good at 13V even, and 606 CCA.

Voltage while cranking was 11.43V.

That's all the numbers i have at the moment.

I wired it up exactly as this writeup said, http://www.electromotive-inc.com/pdf_files/neon99.pdf

Any info is helpful! Trying to get her back on the road by this weekend.

I still haven't looked at that link for my meter, but i am clicking on it as we speak. I visually inspected and cleaned the grounds, with no noticeable change. Once i check out that link i will test resistance. *edit* meter seems easy enough to use for resistance, will go test battery ground and intake ground, and any other grounds i can find and report the readings back.

Alt doesn't charge with regulator unplugged. (Someone on 2G asked so I'm posting results here too)

Battery ground resistance is .25

 

[Slo2gen]

What setting is the meter set to when measuring the ground? .25 isn't bad but it isn't good either. Where is the case of the regulator grounded at/bolted to? We are running out of options on what can be bad . Do you have any pictures of your wiring/engine bay, maybe something somebody can spot that you may be overlooking.

 

[Anubis_4_99]

What setting is the meter set to when measuring the ground? .25 isn't bad but it isn't good either. Where is the case of the regulator grounded at/bolted to? We are running out of options on what can be bad . Do you have any pictures of your wiring/engine bay, maybe something somebody can spot that you may be overlooking.

I read through a tutorial that came up in the posted link and it stated to set the meter to the lowest setting for the best reading, so that's what it was set to. Dont recall the setting off hand. If .25 isn't a very good reading, i'll take it off and clean at good tomorrow, i've got a dremel with wire wheels and what not i can use to help get a good grounding surface.

Regulator is grounded on the firewall, with one bolt, and 2 self drilling metal screws, one of which go through the casing and firewall. (just the flat part) Also i made sure to check the other side before putting in the screws, i dont need any other wiring problems right now.

I can take some pics tomorrow if you have any specific areas you want pics of let me know, otherwise i'll just get camera happy .

 

[Slo2gen]

We'll like I said, its not bad, but it could be better. As far as the install of the regulator, it sounds fine and dandy. Get picture happey at this point, I am running out of ideas on what could be bad at this point.

 

[Anubis_4_99]

I'm almost ready to just replace the whole freaking engine bay harness at this point and hope that solves it, .

I'll take whatever pics i can, probably be posted between 3-5PM tomorrow after i clean that ground and search and test for others.

*edit* thursday 6PM

Well work let out late and it is now raining, so i will have pics up tomorrow .

I was curious though, i metered my battery today and it read 15.2V with everything off. The regulator is there to maintain the voltage of the system. Could it just be maintaining what the signal is its getting (which i assume in this case is close to 15V)?

I've driven it with the regulator unplugged, figuring i can do minimal damage to anything but the battery, which after all this could probably deal with being replaced anyway, and now after about 2 hours total of driving i still get 15.2V with everything off. That driving is with headlights, heater, and stereo the entire time.

Also, with the regulator unplugged, everything functions perfectly, my lights are one even brightness all the time, my temp gauge even reads lower then normal, this makes me curious as to if the alt itself could still be a problem or not, i'll probably take it off and have it bench tested tomorrow.

I dunno, just random info i decided i should post if its useful or not .

Well I drained the battery to 12.1V and hooked the regulator back up. It is now charging at about a steady 15.23V.

stayed steady for a while but now it is spiking again, not nearly as bad as it use to, but still is non the less.

 

[Anubis_4_99]

Ok, so i took the regulator off to clean some paint off the firewall hoping a better ground with it would help my problems, and i found something nasty.

I ran the regulator today to test some ground cleaning and what not i did, and this is aparently the results.

The old one had bubbling in the same spot but i figured it was just a deformity in the goo, and nothing to worry about.

If anyone has any ideas to toss out, feel free!

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Ok, so i took the regulator off to clean some paint off the firewall hoping a better ground with it would help my problems, and i found something nasty.

I ran the regulator today to test some ground cleaning and what not i did, and this is aparently the results.

The old one had bubbling in the same spot but i figured it was just a deformity in the goo, and nothing to worry about.

If anyone has any ideas to toss out, feel free!

I'd say either the voltage regulator wasn't properly grounded or the battery's field is shorted.

 

[Anubis_4_99]

Well instead of messing with fixing something that was broken, i just replaced it.

New wiring harness and ECU seems to have fixed the issue.

I've now driven 200 miles with no battery light, and has tested at 3 seperate places to charge at 14.8V under load.