Won't crank?

[ElectroPanda]

hey dsm guys and gals! I recently had my buddy build and install a 6 bolt swap. He said everything was done right and i had his word. It is a 6 bolt, bore .02 and has a 16g turbo. I couldn't get my old starter to crank it or a brand new one. I thought i would put a 1/2 socket and turn the engine over by hand. it turns counter-clockwise and then stops like it's locked up and then i turned it clockwise and same thing.. Any ideas?! Really need thoughts Should i take it all out and rebuild it all over again?

 

[miguelmcv]

Check your timing marks, It might be that is off.

Don't try to crank it till you are totally sure the timing is good, if it is not good and you be able to crank it, you will end up with a garbage bag of head valves, Just make sure timing is good.

If timing is good, remove all 4 spark plugs and try to turn it with your hand and see if you are able to turn it all the way..

How it sounds when you were trying to crank it, does sounds like it grinds or what it does, any sound?.

 

[brobo]

if your timing is off fix before you make the issue worse , as you could bend valves

 

[Total Eclipse]

Definately check the timming! You should be able to turn the motor over with a 1/2" braker bar pretty easily (with the spark plugs removed). If not, there are problems. Being that it is a new build, may need to check the rotating assembly to make sure all is good as well. drain the oil, pull the pan, and at least do a visual inspection to see if anything is binding. I would check the timming first though.

Nate

 

[ElectroPanda]

Thanks for the information. I'm working on it today. When i turned it by hand it went a few turns and just stops and no sounds just stops and feels impossible to turn. I'm new to the 4g63 but not giving up. My last car was a 500hp 327 sbc camaro. I'll pull my oil pan. What am i looking for? If it is a timing issue how can i resolve it?

 

[miguelmcv]

Here are some directions on the timing marks and how to align them.
The Infamous Timing Belt TSB

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/maintenance-repairs/436337-pics-balance-shaft-timing.html

 

[ElectroPanda]

Would timing cause my engine not to crank all the way over? Like I said in my post above, I can turn it back but it stops turning after i turn it so much. I'm not doing this but my starter just by hand. Should i take my engine out and go through it all? I'm so new at this and don't know the possibilities

 

[chadwin508]

Ya it can. Just like everyone else is saying take all the spark plugs out so the engine can turn over easy then crank it over with a drive.(not your starter). It sounds like your timing is off, the valve is hitting the piston.

 

[Total Eclipse]

yea, if the timming is off, it will do one of two things. either not turn over (which is actually the better of the two) or turn over and bend/destroy/break off valves as they will still be open when th piston comes up to TDC.

 

[ElectroPanda]

Can i leave my engine in the car? Can someone explain how to set timing?

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

Timing Belt VFAQ

Engine does not have to be pulled at all. First time will be nerve racking, but it's a rather straight forward job.

What you're going to end up with, here, is removing your timing tensioner, removing the belt, putting the crank and both cams in time, and reinstalling the belt and timing tensioner. The link above will explain how to install it.

If you do not have a timing tool to lock the cams, you can put the cams in time - preferably with a helping hand - and place the belt over the cams. Zip Tie or Bulldog Clip the belt to each cam and that will hold the cams in place. Be sure to use a small flatedge or even a nail file - It should slide between the timing marks of the cams and be flush with the surface of the head.

Also, keep in mind that the cam dowel guides should be at 12:00 as described in the link provided. Additionally, try to remove the belt with the cams and crank in their proper timing location. The last thing you want is remove the belt, a cam jerking one direction and slamming a valve into a piston.

Edit : From the sound of it, though, you've already tried to turn it over and thus likely already caused damage to your valves. I'd recommend pulling the valve cover and looking for damage such as rockers hanging and the like. Happy trails~

 

[ElectroPanda]

The weather in Indiana isn't so great (muddy, cold, snow) and outside is my only space to work right now. I may have to postpone a little. I hope that this resolves my issue/problem. I'm very thankful for the information. I checked under my valve cover and no damage has been caused. I plan on this to be my DD and reach 400hp. While i wait for weather to be better or a mechanic. Can anyone estimate if i can reach 400hp with a Six bolt swap (bore .02) with a 16g turbo? I'm gonna get the car done before trade or selling it. Just taking it slow for now

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

I would focus less on potential horsepower and more on getting it running.

One thing I'd like to request is that you set the crank to it's proper timing mark and then take a picture of the cams and post it here so we can see just how bad the problem could be.

 

[ElectroPanda]

I got some work done.. I found a Connecting rod bearing cap in the bottom of my oil pan! flipping wow.. I wasted time and money with someone who DOES NOT know how to bolt stuff together.. I have learned to build stuff myself unless it's a shop. Fixing tomorrow and hoping to be on the road soon!

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

I got some work done.. I found a Connecting rod bearing cap in the bottom of my oil pan! flipping wow.. I wasted time and money with someone who DOES NOT know how to bolt stuff together.. I have learned to build stuff myself unless it's a shop. Fixing tomorrow and hoping to be on the road soon!

You found a rod cap in the oil pan?...well that can't be good at all. Check the crank for scrapes, gouges, and overall damage. It's possible that while rotating the crank you struck the rod against it which would lead to a future case of spun rod bearings and further damage.

Also at this point I would assume that nothing was installed properly by whomever you obtained it from so go through the bottom end and ensure that everything is torqued to spec after you inspect everything.

 

[ElectroPanda]

I'm going to inspect it all in the morning and reattach the rod to my crank and torque it all to spec. Also set my timing. The rod bearings are still good and new. Hoping for a productive day this Thursday

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

Good stuff. Keep us updated! We enjoy seeing progress~

 

[DirtyJerzeyDsm1]

I would check the timing first. Sounds like the timing is off and the valves are hitting the piston.

 

[ElectroPanda]

I found the problem. The Connecting rod bearing cap was in my oil pan. My friend done a horrible job rebuilding it. I order new Connecting rod bolts and nuts (they were bent) today and will be here Tuesday. Everything else looks good but I'm going to torque everything to spec Tuesday. I also set my timing while i had 1 at tdc. Thanks for the timing info XiKeiyaZI.