Wich 4 guages are essential?

[definitiveno]

So far i ordered just a boost guage and a trans temp guage (built automatic). I will put them into one of the autometer dash pods to keep them out of the way and stock looking as possible. The only two other units I was thinking was an aem wideband hooked up to an air fuel guage and an apexi turbo timer wich also shows volts. Not sure where to put the timer but I supose the air fuel would go in the pillar if I had to.......... hmmmm or maybe the ashtray .... Not sure yet


Any thing else that you would get and why you feel it is a necassity, post it up?

 

[talon1987]

EGT Temp gauge

 

[definitiveno]

EGT Temp gauge

ive read that those are not really responsive enough, like say suddenly your car began running very lean your piston could become very damaged before the needle would even register.


Isn't a knock sensor a better indicater of too much heat?

 

[psychlow]

Isn't a knock sensor a better indicater of too much heat?

You can melt holes in your pistons without knocking once in the right conditions....

 

[definitiveno]

You can melt holes in your pistons without knocking once in the right conditions....

What conditions? Like, can you please be be more specific cause I can't see it really imagine the chain of events that could allow that.




Aside from the exhaust temp are their any other gotta-have-its for guages?

 

[HighPsi92GST]

4 gauges i have on my 95 tsi -
boost
egt
oil pressure
trans temp (also automatic)

 

[RamenPride]

I have 5 gauges:

Boost
EGT
Oil Pressure
Water Temp
Voltmeter

I'd say at the least you'd want boost, egt, and oil pressure. I got a voltmeter wired directly to the battery because of previous electrical issues. I got the water temp because i took out the A/F and I figured it was cheap enough and useful enough to fill that spot in the a-pillar.

 

[HighPsi92GST]

i have a water temp and volt gauge laying in my toolbox from a car i bought and parted out, was going to put them ito the tsi but no where to mount them
so i just stuck the 4 in there i felt were the most important

 

[psychlow]

What conditions? Like, can you please be be more specific cause I can't see it really imagine the chain of events that could allow that.

"Knocking" is the sound of combustion that occurs when gasoline detonates rather than burning evenly. Detonation requires certain conditions to take place - most notably, pressure and heat.

Retarded ignition timing is one example that would cause that to occur. If the timing is such that you're not getting enough compression (pressure) to cause detonation, but your A/F is lean, you're still creating too much heat from the burn. It still burns evenly, it just doesn't have enough fuel to cool the heat created by the combustion process. You won't get the "ping", or "marbles in a can" knocking sound, so the sensor won't notice that your engine is eating itself.

If it happens only under a certain condition (like WOT between 3-5K RPM for example, which is common with turbo cars due to the turbo's heated air during peak torque range) it'll be doing minor damage every time you step on it, and you won't even notice the difference in coolant temperature due to the heat capacitance of the water smoothing out the spikes. Unless you read the plugs, you have no idea without an EGT or a wideband.

It is a rare condition that you're just running too hot but not hot enough to detonate or get hot enough to preignite, but it can and does happen. The guys who it happens to have no idea because they "tuned for no knock" and their engine still bit it.

 

[96whgsx]

4 gauges i have on my 95 tsi -
boost
egt
oil pressure
trans temp (also automatic)

As do I but without the trans temp (manual)

 

[Warmachine91vr4]

a pyro meter is more precise than you might think, who ever told you they dont change temp quickly had a cheap one my hks is very very sensitive just remember the num 2 cyl is the hottest, i have too many gauges in my car but my top four are greddy wide band 02 with digi readout, apexi boost/vac, hks EGT, and the good old knock box, i also have coolant temp,oil pressure, intake temp, oil temp, volt meter, ex temp its probed in the d/p, and fuel pressure. it may look stupid with all the gauges but who the hell cares its a gvr4, and it purrs like a lion or something like that

 

[MattnGsx]

Boost gauge
o2 with kit (most important for tunning) and not a blinky light.
oil preasure gauge
egt (which isn't very important)

 

[guitarXgeek]

What I have:
Boost/vac gauge
Oil pressure gauge

What else I recommend:
WB o2 - don't waste your money on a silly light show AFR gauge, though
Water temp
And if you just HAVE to have another space to fill, an EGT gauge (they aren't very helpful besides being a warning gauge if something goes terribly, terribly wrong)

 

[definitiveno]

What's wrong with my current oil pressure and water temperature guages?

Just curious, are they simply not good indicaters that some thing bad is happening?

 

[psychlow]

Oil pressure/water temp are good indicators. Oil pressure is great because if something happens, you know to shut down ASAP. Water temp keeps you from warping your head and blowing your HG if something happens cooling-wise....

Boost gauge is a MUST if you plan to increase boost.

From there, it's EGT or fuel pressure IMO.

 

[definitiveno]

I was planning on getting an aeromotive guage that installs under the hood....


Also, should I consider egt before wideband? I'm using dsmlink also BTW...

 

[MattnGsx]

Also, should I consider egt before wideband? I'm using dsmlink also BTW...

Go with the wideband first, you can hook it up to the dsmlink, and log with it also. Your going to get your best tunning.

 

[karbon]

Go with the wideband first, you can hook it up to the dsmlink, and log with it also. Your going to get your best tunning.

I disagree. I actually HAVE DSMLink, and even in the instructions they say that when you're tuning at WOT, you should be looking at your EGT gauge to make sure you're not going over 900C. An EGT gauge is a must-have component while a wideband is a "get it if you've got the cash and want the absolute best tune" component in my book. DSMLink gives you enough information without a wideband to get a really good tune on your car. Go for the EGT and gauge for now.

 

[BoBbOrAzE]

how come noone as an air/fuel gauge?? how do people go about checking if they are rich or lean during idle and driving without an air fuel/gauge? and no logger

egt?

 

[definitiveno]

air fuel guages (other than wideband) are inaccurate, by a mile.

 

[karbon]

how come noone as an air/fuel gauge?? how do people go about checking if they are rich or lean during idle and driving without an air fuel/gauge? and no logger
egt?

Very few air/fuel gauges actually tell you anything meaningful. Specifically only the ones hooked to a wideband, and of that family, only the ones that give you meaningful output like your O2 voltage or A/F ratio. Blinky light gauges for narrowband output are just to amuse the chicks in the passenger seat, and to tell you that your O2 sensor works okay.
The logger's also only going to give you menaingful information about your fuel trims in closed loop conditions, so it's worthless for A/F ratio calculation most of the time anwyay.
I'd say that more people don't have accurate, meaningful gauges hooked up to wideband O2 sensors laregely because of the cost.

 

[HighPsi92GST]

I'd say that more people don't have accurate, meaningful gauges hooked up to wideband O2 sensors laregely because of the cost.

I plan on getting one when I have that kind of money to spend on something like that.

as karbon said, most of those cheap a/f gauges just blink like crazy and dont mean much at all. I had one once (bought the car with it) and it annoyed me so much that on a long road trip one night i actually cut the wire off so it would stop blinking. it was soon after replaced with an oil pressure gauge

 

[HighPsi92GST]

What's wrong with my current oil pressure and water temperature guages?

Just curious, are they simply not good indicaters that some thing bad is happening?

you mean the stock ones built into the cluster?
sure they are good indicators, however they are not near as accurate as an aftermarket gauge is. They are simply little "sticks" pointing in a general direction. As for oil pressure, people say "well its between the first line and the second line" where as some on with an aftermarket gauge can say "its at XX psi" basically just more accurate.
And the stock boost gauge is a joke

 

[guitarXgeek]

I disagree. I actually HAVE DSMLink, and even in the instructions they say that when you're tuning at WOT, you should be looking at your EGT gauge to make sure you're not going over 900C. An EGT gauge is a must-have component while a wideband is a "get it if you've got the cash and want the absolute best tune" component in my book. DSMLink gives you enough information without a wideband to get a really good tune on your car. Go for the EGT and gauge for now.

That sounds like complete B.S. to me. I also have dsmlink, and I frequent those forums very often. I have never heard anyone say anything about watching your EGT gauge closely when tuning. Air/fuel mixture hardly has much influence on EGTs as it is. EGT is effected mostly by timing retard, and when you can see the timing curve directly in a dsmlink log there is absolutely NO reason to stare at a useless EGT gauge to "help tune".

To say that an EGT is a must-have and a wideband is a nice-to-have is quite humorous. EGT is not meant for tuning, just as a warning device!! While dsmlink does give you a calculated AFR, it is not something to tune directly by. I conisder the calculated AFR in the link just as a step above using the front o2 to tune from.

Like I said, the only thing an EGT gauge should be used for is a warning device if something goes exteremly wrong all of the sudden. They SHOULD NOT be used to tune off of.

 

[karbon]

Air/fuel mixture hardly has much influence on EGTs as it is. EGT is effected mostly by timing retard, and when you can see the timing curve directly in a dsmlink log there is absolutely NO reason to stare at a useless EGT gauge to "help tune".

The only way that you'd be showing high EGTs is that if you're so rich that the fuel is still burning when the exhaust valves open. People probably know better than that. Another scenario is in EXTREME timing retard conditions, like in an anti-lag style setup. Still yet another (and this is actually the one we WANT to focus on). Lean mixtures can cause elevated EGTs, and this is what you want an EGT gauge for in the first place. Even though timing advance usually lowers EGTs, if you're starting to detonate it'll show on the EGT.

EGT is not meant for tuning, just as a warning device!!

I never said it was for tuning, kiddo. When I said "you should be looking at your EGT gauge to make sure you're not going over 900C", I'm pretty sure that eludes to its nature as a safety device. Thanks for the paraphrase though

While dsmlink does give you a calculated AFR, it is not something to tune directly by.

Finally something I agree with. The AFR calculation isn't FOR tuning. You can tune great based on fuel trims for open loop conditions, and running maximum boost/timing without knock at WOT conditions. While a wbo2 will help considerably in both situations, it's not necessary. Like I said before, it'll give you a better tune than you could've gotten, but you're kosher without forking out for one. My agenda for my car is to make sure that I have the necessary implements of safety, then start pushing the limits. It's a smart way to mod your car.