Where is the F-ing Power!?

[ChitownDSM]

Hey guys. I wanted to write and see what you guys thought of my current situation. First off my car is a 1995 Talon TSI AWD Automatic. I bought the car a little over 6 months ago and I have really started to notice that my bolts ons are not doing what I expected . Below I will list what I have done to the car but I am looking to find out why these current mods aren't putting the type of power to my wheels like a expected them to.

Year:1995
Type: DSM / Mitsubishi / Eagle
Model: Eclipse / Talon
Drive: All Wheel Drive
Miles: 120,XXX

Engine:
TD05 20G turbo
Evo 8 Front Mount Intercooler
Nitrous Express Ntercooler Sprey Kit
Autometer 30/30 Glow Boost Gauge
Autometer Air to Fuel Glow Gauge
Denso 560CC Injectors
Walbro 255lph Fuel Pump
NGK Spark Plugs
NGK Wires
HKY Hyper 3in" Cat Back exhaust
RRE Intake Pipe
Turbo XS RFL Blow-off Valve
Injen 2.5in" Upper and Lower Intercooler Piping
JDM 64mm Throttle Body
Apex SAFC 2
ITE Street Preformance End Clutch's

Stock Notables:
Stock Downpipe
Stock J-Pipe
Stcok AFPR
Stock 7 bolt

Car doesn't excellerate all that fast. Seems like 15 psi isn't close to what it shoudl feel like.

Now i know the car isn't in perfect tune or even very close to it but it's deffinitly closer rather then further to TUNE. If you guys can come up with any idea why I do not have the power I expect from these mods please let me know.

 

[xveganxcowboyx]

The stock down pipe can't be helping much. It's really going to restrict flow on higher than stock boost.

Have you done a boost leak test?

 

[turbodsm18]

I would say that you need to get a AFPR. Go with a little bigger injectors and rewire your fuel pump. Also I think that your stock downpipe in holding back a lot. I havent heard of a stock throttle body being 64mm, I thought they were only 60mm so check into tha. Do a boost leak test and make sure they are no boost leaks. Maybe before any of this, do a compression test and make sure your motor hasnt started to go.

Also: Just read your post again and saw you were only running 15psi on a 20g. That could be one of the problems why your not feeling power. Bump it up to 22psi and see how it feels.

 

[andymoraitis]

There's a few issues I can point out off the top of my head:

1. The stock downpipe is a killer. Get a 3" if you want it to flow.
2. 15psi is nothing on a 20G. These turbos come into their own at 20 or above
3. Running a 255 pump without an AFPR makes it run so rich that it kills performance
4. You need 650's or larger to fully exploit more boost.

I'm not sure what you're referring to about a J-pipe. Only 14B and 16G variants use a j-pipe. 20G's are downflow turbos and use an S-pipe. The fact of the matter is that your tune is pig rich, and you're running low boost on a restrictive downpipe. I'm sure it feels like a dog if it's drowning in fuel and not breathing properly.

I'd hook up a logger, add more boost until you see 1 degree of timing being pulled and then back it down 2psi until the knock goes away. Don't even bother trying to take away fuel to try and compensate for the lack of an AFPR since doing so will only deprive the motor of adequate fuel as opposed to fixing your main issue, which is an abundance of fuel volume.

Add bigger injectors, a 3" downpipe, an AFPR and then see how it feels.

Good luck,

Andy

 

[donmagicjuan]

First of all, you really need to update your mod list. There is a significant disparity between what you've listed here and what is in your list.

Concerning your apparent lack of power, do a boost leak test. This is the number one cause for a slower than normal car for any given setup. I should note, however, that a 20G is not going to make mind-blowing power at 15 psi anyway. Aside from the lag you'll experience with that big a turbo on an automatic, you won't be able to unleash the full potential of your turbo until you crank up the boost. That being said, read on.

I notice that you have a 255 lph fuel pump with a stock AFPR. Do a search for "255 afpr" and you'll discover that this is a definite no-no. Your stock regulator is being overrun at idle, which causes higher than normal pressures in your fuel rail and subsequent pig-rich AFRs. Most people opt for SX or Aeromotive aftermarket AFPRs. You'll have a much easier time tuning when you raise the boost if you perform this simple mod.

Also, 560cc injectors are too small for your turbo. Before you turn up the boost, you really need to upgrade to something bigger, otherwise you'll be begging for fuel cut. I'm currently maxing out my 560s on an EvoIII 16G and will be upgrading them as soon as possible. You should be able to get by with 680s, but realize you will be approaching the limits of tuning with an AFC.

I hope you find this helpful. I'm not trying to be disparaging, but if you want to throw down some respectable numbers, this would be a good start.

 

[donmagicjuan]

Doh, sorry Andy, I type slow.

 

[andymoraitis]

Bah, no worries! Don't feel bad. I was typing my dissertation up there and a few people snuck in before me.

Good stuff anyway!

Andy

 

[TSIMonsteR]

between the logger, afpr, downpipe, you should notice good gains; however, being an automatic, a Translab shift kit will make it feel like a whole 'nother beast

 

[ChitownDSM]

God I wish I could boost my car that high but for some freaking reason everytime I go over 12-15psi my IC pipe blows off. Now I am not a newbie to this sort of issue and I assure you I am using t-bolt clamps sislicone fittings and lipped pipes but for some reason it keeps poping off! I have even tried the hair spray and even duct tape over the fitting and over the t-bolt. I guess I need to handle that issue but as far as the AFPR goes. I have heard from many people that the stock AFPR is fine and from others that it isn't. I need to know some hard facts on the AFPR but thats not my power porblem I don't think.

 

[andymoraitis]

While your pipes blowing off is a major issue, if you want to turn a blind eye to the HUGE effect excessive fuel volume is having on your performance, then I'll gladly shut up and spend my time in another thread. I could care less about the fact that people say it might be OK to run a 255 with the stock FPR as I've measured the pressure difference and know that it's not. Your A/F's are so rich, the car's drowning in fuel and it's hurting more than your performance.

Between that, the leaking IC pipes and the lack of a proper downpipe, there you have it.

 

[EclipseTrbo420A]

One word, Tuning. That will make the most difference. Also, listen to these guys that posted up there. They dont have all those green block things for nothing. I would follow their direction word for word if I were you.

 

[djseclipse]

God I wish I could boost my car that high but for some freaking reason everytime I go over 12-15psi my IC pipe blows off. Now I am not a newbie to this sort of issue and I assure you I am using t-bolt clamps sislicone fittings and lipped pipes but for some reason it keeps poping off! I have even tried the hair spray and even duct tape over the fitting and over the t-bolt. I guess I need to handle that issue but as far as the AFPR goes. I have heard from many people that the stock AFPR is fine and from others that it isn't. I need to know some hard facts on the AFPR but thats not my power porblem I don't think.

Be sure your ic pipes are beaded. I had the same issue and discovered the pipes had no beads on them, which helps keep the couplings in place.

 

[MyBeatGSX]

In addition to what everyone else has said, that Evo VIII intercooler flows like........ well it just doesn't flow that great.

Why not take it to the dyno or the track. Then you'll have an idea of what's going on instead of just "it feels slow".

And get an AFPR!! Why does everyone feel the need to skimp on an important part? It can even help with the tuning when using a limited SAFC.

 

[nh91gsx]

And get an AFPR!! Why does everyone feel the need to skimp on an important part? It can even help with the tuning when using a limited SAFC.

Agreed, if you have a 255lph pump and nothing to slow down the flow, your performance will be shot. I can make my car a good amount faster at 15 pounds of boost with the fuel pressure around 34psi, than I can with my car at 18/19 pounds of boost with too much fuel, simply because the mixtures are leaned out more. The stock fpr can not handle the pressure and besides that you want to be able to adjust the fuel pressure not just how your car reacts to an SAFC. If your car is spooling up and it doesnt even feel like a turbo your car is probably getting way to much fuel.

 

[nh91gsx]

I agree about the afpr, if you have a 255lph pump and nothing to slow down the flow, your performance will be shot. I can make my car a good amount faster at 15 pounds of boost with the fuel pressure around 34psi, than I can with my car at 18/19 pounds of boost with too much fuel, simply because the mixtures are leaned out more. The stock fpr can not handle the pressure, and besides that you want to be able to adjust the fuel pressure to what a good setting for your car is. If your car is spooling up and it doesnt even feel like a turbo your car is probably getting way to much fuel