What should a 2g GSX feel like?

[dsmhurley]

First off, this site/forum is amazing. It's HUGE! Could use some more organization. ie: sectioning off areas, especially in the newbie area. Such as a section only for engine problems, tranny, etc. I know it is partly sectioned but people are posting in the main area and it gets confusing and BIG. The staff should prevent people from posting in that area to keep things organized and easy to find. Nevertheless this place has helped me with many things. Being a computer tech, I have spent most my life with computers, not cars. With that being said, what exactly does an automatic 1997 GSX feel like? What I mean is, what kind of times should it run? Should it be pushing me into my seat after I punch it? Why I ask is because when at a dead stop, if i floor it, I'm better off pulling out some oars and rowing it down the road. Once the turbo spools up it starts picking up some speed. Power breaking doesn't help. I've had it tuned up, I've done most of the things in stage 0, and some in stage 1. I've had it checked to see if it's running too rich/lean. There aren't any boost leaks. I haven't checked how much boost it's giving. The tranny was said to be fine. I don't know anyone who has a GSX that I could ride with to compare. If this question has already been answered please let me know. I searched high and low and couldn't find it.

 

[andymoraitis]

While i don't have an automatic GSX, I've driven a 2G version that still had the stock turbo and transmission. Al lot of what you're describing is valid and usually the result of how weak the T25 is in generating that "push you back in the seat" feeling. It's not as pronounced with a 5 speed. You'll have to remember that these are fairly heavy cars with small stock turbos on them. Judging by your mod list, you'd see a great deal of improvement with a shift kit upgrade and upping the boost by a few psi. The T25 isn't worth running at high boost however as doing so will contribute to an early death.

Basically, you have a heavy car, a fairly small turbo and a low stall torque converter. As mentioned above, you can add a shift kit and bump up the stall and I would definitely add a boost gauge and proper MBC to control it. It's tough to say if you're slower than you should be without knowing how much boost you're running.

Let me know if that helps,

Andy

 

[Mr96GSX408]

I have a auto gsx, and with the stock turbo it feels like crap.

It's due to mainly the gear ratios, 3rd gear took forever to go through. I ran a 15.3 @ 89mph stock with the stock leaky bov. I then upgraded to a t28 Killer (big 16g sorta) and got a 13.4 @ 104-105 at 18psi with a lot more mods.

Now i have a fp3052 that is untimed. I'd say launching at full boost and shifting while not feeling lag in between shifts rock. Boost spikes because you're still on load between shifts so when it goes back into gear, you're still accelerating at full boost.

Anyways, i've beaten manual owners (wrx's, mr2s, ect) and showed them about autos. so don't fret underdog on top you know?

 

[dsmhurley]

Actually it did help some. I'm still confused as to why a stock manual 1996 Eclipse RS can beat me in a quarter mile drag. It frustrates me. Also I'm not sure if this is supposed to happen or not, but when I power break to get a better launch, I can only get the rpms around 3000-3500. That's with it floored. Should it be higher? Or should it stall out?

 

[dsmhurley]

Before I did any work on my car, I took it to the track and ran a 16.9. That's the fastest I could get it. I'm going again on Tuesday since I fixed the main problems to see if it runs any quicker. I'm getting frustrated with it.

 

[Mr96GSX408]

Actually it did help some. I'm still confused as to why a stock manual 1996 Eclipse RS can beat me in a quarter mile drag. It frustrates me. Also I'm not sure if this is supposed to happen or not, but when I power break to get a better launch, I can only get the rpms around 3000-3500. That's with it floored. Should it be higher? Or should it stall out?

The stock torque converter only allows it to go so high for brake boosting. I think the stocker is around 3000rpm max for my car. The times I ran at the tracks, my rpm launches were only that high (around 2900rpm's). go to http://www.importperformancetransmissions.com/ and look at their billet stall torque converter. They say, that a new torque converter is the best mod you can get for a auto. YOu'll decrease a very significant amount of time.
Depending on the turbo you have, you can stall up to 4000+ rpm and still retain daily drivability. (these torque converters pretty much free revs up to 3500rpm and builds boost til 4000rpm)

It's also because you don't have a translab shift kit/alto end clutches. Search those things up. It allows faster downshifts and firmer shifts. It's cheap, but pretty difficult to install. I think IPT sells them ready to be bolted on. Anyways, you lost to a Rs?? jk, it'll all come in time and money.

 

[dsmhurley]

yeah I also lost to a Nissan Sentra... Tell me thats not sad... I almost hate my car to the poing I'm going to catch it on fire and drive it into the nearest river. Anyways, I read a little about those torque converters and the shift kit... The ones I've seen are pretty expensive. Now expensive in my eyes is like $500+... I would almost think about going to a junkyard and picking up a decent standard transmission instead... What do you think? Also, is the tranny the problem? Or are you not able to tell from what I've told you.

 

[MyBeatGSX]

I've never driven an automatic or even stock version of my car. But I've driven stock manual and automatic WRX's and I can tell you that the auto is slow as death off the line and feels like it has monster turbo lag without the monster turbo power. I can't say that I've ever been a fan of automatics, but auto + turbo is a very poor combination.... That's not to say it can't be made fast, I'm sure most of the auto people on this site are way faster than my car. I guess its just personal preferance.

 

[dsmhurley]

well i sorta thought the same thing... thats why i was thinking buying the auto upgrades would not be wize... i was thinking maybe i just put the money towards a standard tranny....

 

[ddavisaf]

I've got an auto. I can't decide if I want to keep or swap. My main advantage in racing is not losing boost during shifts. Autocrossing is a little more difficult with a stock auto trans, but a shift kit + new torque converter will improve that. IPT also makes a electro-mechanical shift box for autos. And Kiggly (fastest automatic DSM) is sittin' at the low 10's, maybe even the 9's by now.

www.vfaq.com is an awesome site to read up on. It has alot of useful information, and will answer almost every question you may have.

Also, read up on this post.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105099
Also...
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110891
Transdude is the DSM transmission genius, whether it's automatic or manual.

There are alot of options for automatics, and you'll be able to make one mean DSM. Good luck and welcome to Tuners.

 

[dsmhurley]

hey thanks for the links... anyways i took my car to the track again today... quickest i could get it was a 16.2..... which is a positive increase compared to before (16.9) there was a spyder, fwd, 5-speed turbo there and he was only getting 16's as well... so i don't feel so bad... time for a turbo upgrade i think... or what would you guys suggest?

 

[MyBeatGSX]

Are these cars really that slow stock or is it just lack of drag racing experience or launching skill?

 

[bane3d]

I own an auto 97 gsx and yes, it's slow off the line. The only thing I do like about it is 3rd gear. Mine seems to pull very well once I'm hitting 40mph until around 90. I haven't taken it above 100 yet (wife would kill me and I'd lose the car if I got a speeding ticket)

 

[1993eclipseGS]

First off, this site/forum is amazing. It's HUGE! Could use some more organization. ie: sectioning off areas, especially in the newbie area. Such as a section only for engine problems, tranny, etc. I know it is partly sectioned but people are posting in the main area and it gets confusing and BIG.

It is, People do not listen where to post.

The staff should prevent people from posting in that area to keep things organized and easy to find.

They do.

what exactly does an automatic 1997 GSX feel like? What I mean is, what kind of times should it run? Should it be pushing me into my seat after I punch it? Why I ask is because when at a dead stop, if i floor it, I'm better off pulling out some oars and rowing it down the road. Once the turbo spools up it starts picking up some speed. Power breaking doesn't help. I've had it tuned up, I've done most of the things in stage 0, and some in stage 1. I've had it checked to see if it's running too rich/lean. There aren't any boost leaks. I haven't checked how much boost it's giving. The tranny was said to be fine. I don't know anyone who has a GSX that I could ride with to compare. If this question has already been answered please let me know. I searched high and low and couldn't find it.

Maybe your transmission is going. That or maybe you're not modded? My friends 2g auto was really fast with a b16g and supporting mods, Then it started dying down(The tranny). He took it to the track and ran a 15.1 with a 3" turboback, ported ex manifold/o2 housing, ported b16g w/ 34mm flapper, 100octane and the mbc set at around 17-18psi...

They're not fast cars, Stock.

 

[dsmhurley]

i was pretty much thinking the tranny was going as well... even though it just got a new one put on about 25000 miles ago.... and as far as me not having drag experience and take off experience... i don't... but jesus how hard is it to take off in an auto... you floor the gas, hold down on the break, and then release when the lights change... my reaction time the other night ranged from .02 - .2 i don't think thats horrible.. but i could be wrong... does anyone know a good place to get a tranny... at a reasonable price... keep in mind i'm fresh out of highschool (freshman in college)... funds aren't so sufficient..

 

[LowFourteen95]

As a previous owner of a 95 AWD Talon A/T and current owner of a 97 M/T, I'll try to shed a little light on the comparison for you. I do believe that you'll be happy with the auto if you stick with it. There are times I do miss my auto, and would probably still have it if it hadn't been stolen. The current car is faster, partly due to more mods, and is certainly a has been a great learning experience to see how the rest of the dsm community has been living.

On to your car, I reallly doubt the transmission is in as bad of shape as you say it is. They are pretty stout units. What symtoms are you experiencing? You haven't done anything out of the ordinary to abuse it have you? Now, when you brake torque at the line on the stock 25, you should be able to stall between 2500 and 3000, but what's more important is building about 18 lbs boost at the line. Yes, I was able to do that all the time with it. Tires should squeal pretty bad when you lift off the brake. If you can't do that then we'll need to diagnose that. The translab shift kit with black spring is a great upgrade which I did myself. I never got a chance to upgrade the torque converter; that would have been my next step. The general consensus I got on that from my research was not to mess around with the cheaper re-stalled stock housing units, from both a reliability and performance standpoint, they just aren't worth it. You want one of the billet 4,000 stall units. End clutch won't add performance, but will likely fix your overdrive if it isn't working. DSM Link has a feature to retain ignition timing between shifts. I could go on, but that should be enough info to get you started.

 

[dsmhurley]

hmm... well at the line... it stalls at about 3200... when i let off the brake... it slowly starts to accelerate until the turbo has spooled up... from what i hear i should be able to at least ge a little chirp out of my tires... but no i could get out and run faster than that thing can take off... any ideas? i'll get a boost controller and new gauges so i can find out how much boost i'm getting...

 

[LowFourteen95]

My car felt like that after I upgraded to a 14b with a cracked housing, and then also with a brand new 16g, as far as getting out and running beside it would be faster at frst. That t-25 however produce some sweet launches once you eliminate all your boost leaks. Also check that the manifold to turbo gasket is not leaking. Feel around in that area with your hand at idle, just be careful not to burn yourself. Any puffs of air will be an exhaust leak. It would be nice to check the exhust housing for leaks around the wastegate area also, however I'm not sure that turbo is as prone to cracking as the mitsu 6cm housing is. Checking that should be done last however, since you'd have to remove the O2 housing to do it, which is a pain. For the intake side, build a boost leak tester and pressurize the intake tract. If you haven't replaced the stock 2g BOV with a 1g or other piece yet, definitely do that soon, as its a huge leak. 3200 seems kinda high, but higher is better, so I guess you got lucky there.

 

[BGGSTin]

First off, this site/forum is amazing. It's HUGE! Could use some more organization. ie: sectioning off areas, especially in the newbie area. Such as a section only for engine problems, tranny, etc.

Stop There, you've injured my feelings ; try "Site Feedback Forum" for this stuff too.

 

[dsmhurley]

ok well when i took off the heat shield on top of the manifold i noticed a small crack on it... however nothing is leaking out of it yet... when i was cleaning my car out today i came across the tranny papers from when the previous owner had taken it in... apparently he had a complete rebuild of the tranny... including the torque converter... so maybe they did something to it to give a higher stall... i'm not sure... one of these days i'm going to take it up there and see if i still have a warranty... they did the work when the car had around 117,000 and now it has 136,000... so hopefully there is still a warranty and i can get a check-up on it... i still can't figure out why my car will become fully boosted and i dont go anywhere... what i mean is... i'll be stopped at a light and gradually accelerate, it'll shift into second, and then all of a sudden it stops accelerating... if i apply more gas the turbo starts spooling more yet my car doesn't move any faster... i have to let off the gas all the way and then start giving it gas again before it starts working... its really making me mad...

 

[Thomas91169]

sounds like your current torque convertor is on its last leg. its the same concept as a clutch in a manual, if its toasted, itll start to slip when it gets more and more load.

it also sounds like you need to look into regular maintenance stuff. plugs(ngk bpr6es), wires, air filter, fuel filter, timing job(should have been done at 120k, if not, seriously do it).

my buddy had a auto 96 gsx once. with just a 1g bov and a 3" catback he pulled a 14.7 if i recall. auto's are a very different feeling. unlike a manual that has to spool after every shift, autos pull all the way through. though a automatic robs lots of power, add that to a awd platform, and your drivetrain is soaking you of 25% of your output. when my buddy did a evo16g setup, it was badass to launch and get to 100 with, after 100, its like hitting a brick wall.

 

[dsmhurley]

it was badass to launch and get to 100 with, after 100, its like hitting a brick wall.

what did you mean by that? why is it like hitting a brick wall? would it just not accelerate anymore... i have changed the plugs and wires (NGK), and the air filter (whole new intake). when i first got it i took it to a mechanic and had the serpentine belt changed... so being a computer tech. i'm not sure if that involved timing it or not... only thing i'm not too sure about is the fuel filter... but i was thinking of doing a complete fuel upgrade (injectors, etc.) some time... should i just wait to do that or what? what is so different with your friends than from mine? i don't get it... why can't cars be as easy as computers!

 

[gotlag]

Just thought I would toss in my .02. Was ready to give up the 95 GSX, as I was having comparable issue with the acceleration (my 91 Celica stx with a 1.6 NA could kill me from 0-60). I was really beating myself up looking for boost leaks,playing with the ignition and fuel system, and finally cried for help here in the forums Defiant pointed out to check my transfer case, and viola, there was the problem. Was dragging down the car to the point it started to hurt the tranny. Went through and rebuilt the tranny and the transfer case and added the shift kit and manual valve upgrade while I was at it (IPT is the best!!).Still using a stock converter,wish I had went with a stall now.Got all back together, and now I am loving this car. I have other mods, but fixing the t-case/tranny issue is what made this car fun. Have you looked at the fluid in your case yet?? Worth looking at.

 

[dsmhurley]

no i haven't checked anything with the tranny... like i had said in an earlier reply, i found the papers from when the previous owner took it in for a rebuild... im gonna find out where the place is and see if i still have a warranty... if i do i'm gonna have them take a look at it... to be honest i have no clue where the transfer case really is... i'm sure if i really went to looking i could easily find it.. but yeah... i'll take your advice and look... i was also told earlier today that i should do an engine rebuild since it has 136,000 miles and probably hasn't had one...

 

[numlock666]

yeah I also lost to a Nissan Sentra... Tell me thats not sad... I almost hate my car to the poing I'm going to catch it on fire and drive it into the nearest river.

, sorry to laugh. Ill trade you my 97' RS for your GSX .
Well i lost to a Toyota Camry if it makes you feel any better..And also to a friends Pontiac Vibe -_-" twice. None the less I love my RS, if it makes you feel better go whoop on some ricer honduhs,