What HeadGasket to run....

[xxShaneOmac]

Im pretty sure the previous owner just replaced the Timing belt was done 15k ago.

But Im fully moded to goto 20-24 psi and Im not going above 17 w/o doing the ARP head stud and HG step.

So 7bolt ARP headstuds are a Check but the HG is still up in the air.

Cometic
MLS
Copper

I dont know what HG to choose.
Why this and why not that.

Also.
The head will come off, but the Block is staying in the car.
How in the hell will I mill the block, it HAS to be milled and flat as a pancake right?

I really need.

1. What HG and why
2. Mill the head and what todo with the block?!

Thanks!

 

[Freerevving]

Im pretty sure the previous owner just replaced the Timing belt was done 15k ago.

But Im fully moded to goto 20-24 psi and Im not going above 17 w/o doing the ARP head stud and HG step.

So 7bolt ARP headstuds are a Check but the HG is still up in the air.

Cometic
MLS
Copper

I dont know what HG to choose.
Why this and why not that.

Also.
The head will come off, but the Block is staying in the car.
How in the hell will I mill the block, it HAS to be milled and flat as a pancake right?

I really need.

1. What HG and why
2. Mill the head and what todo with the block?!

Thanks!

you shouldn't need to deck the block... but I highly recommend you clean it/sand it... and definitely resurface the head

I would use an OEM style 4-layer metal headgasket

 

[xxShaneOmac]

So block dosnt need anything but a sand and clean?

Ill admit tho
Timing belt
Cams
Lifters
Springs Retainers
ARP
HG

All getting done by a shop.

 

[fwdmaster]

No need to resurface the block just the head, I would go with the MLS headgasket with arp head studs, been proven to handle high boost

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

Obviously check for warpage on the deck of the block. If you want to use a 4 layer MLS, you need to have very smooth surfaces. The head being milled is a good idea as like the guy above, sanding down the block with like a 1000 grit sandpaper will do. Thats what i did to my new block. It was flat but still had some residue left. Now its perfectly smooth. I am going with a .020 Felpro MLS gasket. Its a tacky MLS that is suppose to hold up very nicely. Another good MLS is the HKS. If you dont want to spend that kind of money, honestly, the mitsu composite one will do just fine for 25 psi. Blacknspoln uses a composite gasket and has over 25 psi and it has stood up fine. Hope that helps.

James

 

[GnArKiLL70]

no! dont sand the block!!! you need the head and block as clean and smooth as you can get it..

but go with a mitsu mls HG and if you want to make sure it wont leak use some copper spray. i have used both mitsu and cometic HG's and the mitsu's seen to seal alittle better..

 

[xxShaneOmac]

I want this thread to keep going.

Alot of people are saying Sand and not to sand.

People have told me in the past no on the copper spray

People have said you HAVE to have the block milled.

Reasons please if you have them.
I dont wanna go in on just a whim and have my car push coolent the first 25psi pass.

 

[Freerevving]

i agree with the spray gasket... but quickly sanding the block with a palm sander gets it silky smooth... there's too much crud left over from the composite gasket... and the metal gets an imprint...
very difficult to put low spots in cast iron

as said above you should check for warpage... you can do it with a straight edge and feeler gauge... if there is no warpage you'll be golden with some 120 to 240 on a palm sander... maybe 400 without a palm sander

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

Ok. WHY wouldn't you sand the block down. I can send you pics of my block and how smooth it is. I used 1000 grit sandpaper and it came out perfect. If you do this, you want to mill the block. If you do this, you can go with any HG you want. If you dont, i would go composite. Composites its smart to use a copper spray. You can copper spray a metal gasket but not necessary. If you go with the felpro MLS or HKS, you can't spray it.

Also, i dont think it is necessary to mill the head. But if youre getting all this work done, you might as well do that too.

James

 

[xxShaneOmac]

Ill do my own FMIC install or injectors FP etc.

But stuff inside the engine, where If i droped a little peice of metal "I" just ruined my car.

Well Yeah Im not ready to risk that on my very expensive perfect condition 2g.
So I have a pro do it and if it goes up his head is on the block not mine.

Also The shops I talk to all say OEM regular blah blah blah cause its safe.
So I gota figure out what I wanna do first.

 

[Freerevving]

safe? well all you really need is the ARP's for 30 psi... but you could have bad luck... a layered metal headgasket is less likely to spring a leak in the long-run

 

[blcknspo0ln]

Why do you guys insist on having this uber l33t metal headgaskets when the OP just wants to run 24 psi? I mean really, I think the suggestions have gone far enough. Without machining both the head and the block, I would NEVER recommend anyone putting a metal type headgasket on their setup. I'll say it again, I have personally seen over 6 metal headgaskets fail due to improper setup. Yes they work and yes people have done it, but on a low boost engine, why take the chance? Run an oem composite headgasket with some copper spray. I have run over 30 psi with a standard OEM headgasket with ARP's and not a hint of pushed coolant.

 

[xxShaneOmac]

Just kinda seems that taboo thing is running 20+ psi on stock HG / HS

I know people have done it.
And people have ran 10's on the T25.

But I would rather not try and be lucky.
Yet spend 100 bucks and be .. whats the word comfortable or something.
You know

 

[blcknspo0ln]

Just kinda seems that taboo thing is running 20+ psi on stock HG / HS

I know people have done it.
And people have ran 10's on the T25.

But I would rather not try and be lucky.
Yet spend 100 bucks and be .. whats the word comfortable or something.
You know

If you want peace of mind, take both the block and the head to the machine shop to have them both surfaced to whatever specifications the headgasket needs. The price of r&r is a lot more costly, but hey, that's what you pay for peace of mind.

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

Obviously check for warpage on the deck of the block. If you want to use a 4 layer MLS, you need to have very smooth surfaces. The head being milled is a good idea as like the guy above, sanding down the block with like a 1000 grit sandpaper will do. Thats what i did to my new block. It was flat but still had some residue left. Now its perfectly smooth. I am going with a .020 Felpro MLS gasket. Its a tacky MLS that is suppose to hold up very nicely. Another good MLS is the HKS. If you dont want to spend that kind of money, honestly, the mitsu composite one will do just fine for 25 psi. Blacknspo0ln uses a composite gasket and has over 25 psi and it has stood up fine. Hope that helps.

James

Hey i said composites are good.

James

 

[xxShaneOmac]

This is why Im here and asking questions.

If people hadn't said MLS I wouldnt even know there was MLS HG's.

Things like that you learn from one place or another.
Right now Im trying to learn whats best for my car to be safe.

I guess Pulling everything and a total engine rebuild with 100% machine work would be best.
But Im looking for a HG that will hold mid 20 psi.

If Its OEM composite, thats something I need to know.

Thanks for your .02 blk

 

[blcknspo0ln]

Yup, sorry if I came across snippy, I just don't like seeing crazy overkill information being posted around to those who are looking for straight answers. Not for nothing, another advantage the composite has over an MLS is that it is forgiving. If you choose to skip over (or the machine shop can't do it right) the machining process where everything is to spec, the OEM will have better chances of sealing versus a metal type gasket.

Hey i said composites are good.

James

Yea, I must have missed your post. sorry !

 

[xxShaneOmac]

Yup, sorry if I came across snippy, I just don't like seeing crazy overkill information being posted around to those who are looking for straight answers. Not for nothing, another advantage the composite has over an MLS is that it is forgiving. If you choose to skip over (or the machine shop can't do it right) the machining process where everything is to spec, the OEM will have better chances of sealing versus a metal type gasket.



Yea, I must have missed your post. sorry !

No worries, I prob sound like some snob with money that just swipes his card.

But nah Im trying to do my full research.
And Composite makes me happy, I save money,
ExtremePSI 7bolt ARP + HG for 170.

So do you think Milling the Head by its self is worth while with thie composite?
Or sanding? Or just line it up after its been sprayed and your done.

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

So do you think Milling the Head by its self is worth while with thie composite?
Or sanding? Or just line it up after its been sprayed and your done.

Again, if you are doing all that work. You might as well mill the head. A smoother surface is always better than one that isn't. But it is not needed. All you need is a gasket, copper spray, ARP studs, and a torque wrench.

James

 

[KYNgsx]

As long as the head is within specs, I don't think its something you "might as well do while its off" either because it makes changing a head gasket way more complicated than it needs to be. (You just turned a job that should take a few hours into a job that will take several days since you have to take the head to a machine shop, etc.)

Here's what I did: clean the block and head real quick with a roloc plastic bristle disk, make sure everything was clean and dry, and then slap head gasket on. No spray or anything. The Felpro composite and Arp's hold up fine for me. 26 psi daily driver, pump 92. Torqueing the head down properly is probably more important than worrying about a mirror smooth finish for the head gasket.

 

[FORMONTOYA]

Torqueing the head down properly is probably more important than worrying about a mirror smooth finish for the head gasket.

I would have to agree with this. 30PSI and under will be good with just a composite and ARPs if done correctly. As stated, a simple straight-edge will be used to check for head warpage...the block should be fine once to old gasket material is removed. If the head is good, then a little clean-up is all that is required. The surfaces don't have to be perfect, that's why composites are made.

The real secret (if you can call it that) is that you torque the fasteners down in the proper order and also in at least 3 steps...to 1/3, to 2/3, then to spec. Then go back and hit all to spec 1 more time. I don't use spray and have done quite a few HG jobs without issue using this method on 4-6-8 cyl engines over the last 20+ years.

I would not even thing about a MLS on the 4G63 until I went above 30PSI, then it would really depend on the circumstances if I used one. MLS setups WILL require the block and head to be resurfaced if you want it done correctly. With the expense and effort required to accomplish this task equals way overkill for a 25PSI engine, and as stated, a task that is easy to do wrong.

 

[fatherbubble]

Heres my .02 get it over with get the head O-Ringed an be done with it. No worry about blowing a head gasket then. I run 30+ on my O-Ringed head no worries.

 

[FORMONTOYA]

Heres my .02 get it over with get the head O-Ringed an be done with it. No worry about blowing a head gasket then. I run 30+ on my O-Ringed head no worries.

I imagine that if you read the whole thread that this statement is just a joke as this method is an extreme overkill solution to the question, even more so than a MLS setup. While I agree that a properly done o-ring setup will definitely get you higher up the performance ladder...it shouldn't even be thrown into the mix for the OP to consider at this stage.

 

[Freerevving]

Yup, sorry if I came across snippy, I just don't like seeing crazy overkill information being posted around to those who are looking for straight answers. Not for nothing, another advantage the composite has over an MLS is that it is forgiving. If you choose to skip over (or the machine shop can't do it right) the machining process where everything is to spec, the OEM will have better chances of sealing versus a metal type gasket.



Yea, I must have missed your post. sorry !

Yeah I mentioned it too

safe? well all you really need is the ARP's for 30 psi... but you could have bad luck... a layered metal headgasket is less likely to spring a leak in the long-run

I've never had a headgasket leak after install... and I've used a few MLS metal headgaskets on different engines. All OEM or OEM remakes.

The whole point of using a multi-layered metal headgasket is for longevity. I don't believe the metal itself holds more boost than composite. But the metal actually compresses much further than composite, creating a better seal on smooth surfaces....

And the main thing, is that in the long run the heat differences between the head and the block can eventually blow a composite seal... Won't happen with an OEM MLS that's installed correctly... The layers compensate for the different rates of thermal expansion. Because the heat differences become greater with high boost, the MLS is going to handle high-mileage better.

and btw I'm referring strictly to the OEM headgasket... but just the MLS one. I've heard about problems with cometics, copper, etc... and I try to stay away from non-OEM style parts

-
-
and if you're really so worried about it, get the head or block o-ringed

Heres my .02 get it over with get the head O-Ringed an be done with it. No worry about blowing a head gasket then. I run 30+ on my O-Ringed head no worries.

 

[FORMONTOYA]

Im pretty sure the previous owner just replaced the Timing belt was done 15k ago.

But Im fully moded to goto 20-24 psi and Im not going above 17 w/o doing the ARP head stud and HG step.

So 7bolt ARP headstuds are a Check but the HG is still up in the air.

Cometic
MLS
Copper

I dont know what HG to choose.
Why this and why not that.

Also.
The head will come off, but the Block is staying in the car.
How in the hell will I mill the block, it HAS to be milled and flat as a pancake right?

I really need.

1. What HG and why
2. Mill the head and what todo with the block?!

Thanks!

With this criteria, are you guys really going to keep stateing the OP to use anything other than a composit to work properly over a lengthy period of time?