What are the chances to get crankwalk ?

[DavidGST]

i have a 1996 GS-T and i heard alot of the crankwalk,,,what are the chances to get it?
Thanks

 

[ddimestalon]

Originally posted by DSMJim


You say no signs of crankwalk yet, have you checked your end play? Basically what I am saying is most people say the chance is slim and it's not. Mod your car and drive hard and see what happens. Most people say no signs of crankwalk because they dont hear any ticking and their pedal doesn't stick to the floor around left turns. That doesn't mean you don't have crankwalk. If you don't measure your end play then you have no idea if you have it or not that is the only way to tell. Once you get to the point where you notice signs of crankwalk developing, the tick the pedal stick etc, your so far along that crankwalk isn't even the right term anymore. It's more like crankmarathon. Hell even the Supra guys with the 2JZ are running into crankwalk problems on their motors now and they are supposed to be the king of the import world in terms of reliability. I have swapped GSR's because of crankwalk on their motors too. This guy had a JR Supercharger on it and the belt caused crankwalk in under 10k on his car and the belt tention was bang on. I have also seen the LS motor B18B get crankwalk and most honda guys have no idea what crankwalk even is. It's out there and the threat is real don't underestimate it is all I'm saying.

I have a 98 with less than 60k on it and I'll be willing to be my car doesn't ever make it close to 100k before getting crankwalk and I have measured my endplay and it's in spec. I race at the track, race on the street and generally beat my car and I know that it will never make it to 100k without needing a 6 bolt motor. I'm willing to accept that reality and know it's going to come so when it does it's not a big deal. Hell im working on getting a 6Bolt to my door now which I'll prep in my garage so i'm ready when it happens. I could get lucky and not get crankwalk however I think it would only be luck that gets it that far with no problems.

All engines can get crankwalk, its just that 2g's get it more often then others. And the key word in your sentence is beat on your car. If u dont beat on it as much, you can get more time out of your engine. The bottom line is that 7 bolts no matter if there 1gen or 2gen are unpredictable. Some have had seven bolts and had every major mod and ran strong, and others have had a few mods and the engine has gone bad on them. Quite personally if your looking to be a major racer and be very competitve in racing, i would suggest a six bolt. Not because of crankwalk, but because its a beaffer engine and it can handle all of the horsepower pressure. Im not saying that a 7 bolt cant do that, but most 7 bolts crumble when it comes to high horsepower performance.

 

[madeagle]

This may sound like a dumb question, but I am still kind of new to this. When people are talking about 6 or 7 bolt engines what exactlly are they talking about?

 

[jpolizo]

Originally posted by madeagle
This may sound like a dumb question, but I am still kind of new to this. When people are talking about 6 or 7 bolt engines what exactlly are they talking about?

In simple terms, the 6-bolt engine is basically a 1G engine and the 7-bolt is a 2G. There are a variety of differences between the two but it is generally believed that the 6-bolts do not crankwalk as much as the 7s. Note, however, that some feel they do just as much but they don't fail quite so fast when they do. The 6-bolt does not have a crank angle sensor to get chewed up when the crankshaft walks, so the car doesn't die because the sensor is destroyed. Generally speaking, most people feel that you are pretty safe with a 6-bolt.

Some smart folks at Magnus figured out how to take a 6-bolt bottom half and put it into a 2G car and that's called the 6-bolt swap.

 

[madeagle]

ok, I got that part, but why are they called 6 or 7 bolt. Is it part of the engine or something like that? just trying to learn more about the car I am driving.
Thanks.

 

[jpolizo]

It's bolts in the flywheel.

http://www.vfaq.com/mods/early-late-engine.html

 

[madeagle]

That link helped a lot. Thanks.

 

[Earley]

It seems like to me crankwalk is like cancer or somethin, sooner or later itll get ya if its bad enough.

Anyways, Seems like noone really knows whats up with crankwalk, Ive read a bad run of cranks, bad bearings, the tooth fairy.

I think we need to do like the Mk3 Supra guys and set up a internet registry for those who have sufferd or are getting crankwalk and you have to submit year, mileage, etc. Then maybe the number crunchers or philosiphers could come up with something. From what Ive read and has convinced me more then anything, is the location of the oil squirters and where they get their oil from. I believe the 2gs (7-bolts) have the oil squirters on the bottom of the engine and take their oil from the crankshaft and bearings causing abnormal wear instead of where the 6-bolts get theirs.

 

[jpolizo]

Originally posted by Earley
It seems like to me crankwalk is like cancer or somethin, sooner or later itll get ya if its bad enough.

Anyways, Seems like noone really knows whats up with crankwalk, Ive read a bad run of cranks, bad bearings, the tooth fairy.

I think we need to do like the Mk3 Supra guys and set up a internet registry for those who have sufferd or are getting crankwalk and you have to submit year, mileage, etc. Then maybe the number crunchers or philosiphers could come up with something. From what Ive read and has convinced me more then anything, is the location of the oil squirters and where they get their oil from. I believe the 2gs (7-bolts) have the oil squirters on the bottom of the engine and take their oil from the crankshaft and bearings causing abnormal wear instead of where the 6-bolts get theirs.

It may be all the sin and debauchery of my college years, but I can swear some guy did just that. I distinctly remember someonw who had well over 1000 reports and I could swear he posted the summary here but I can't find it anyplace. He had lots of data, like what clutch people were using etc. It's not a panacea, because it doesn't tell you how many cars didn't crankwalk, but it is kind of interesting.

 

[XATgsx]

i am totally convinced on the theory of the oil squirters on the 2g being the problem. they are little check valves, that get crud in them and get stuck open, which in turns robs the main journals of their oil. They the thrust and main bearings fail a.k.a crankwalk. I have a 95gsx which crankwalked twice now, i am rebuilding it my self this time. When i took out the oil squirters, three were stuck open, enough proof for me. I am now putting in a 6 bolt bottom end.

Read about yourself at http://www.magnusmotorsports.com/
Or just take a 6bolt block and a 7 bolt block and compare them. the only main difference is that the 6 bolt block's oil squirters feed off the main galleries, not the crank journals. Why do you think crankwalk is so unpredictable? Engine that are well taken care, oil changes before 3000miles everytime, don't have as much dirt and particles and what not in their oil. Where as dirty engines have more particles in the oil, which in turn get caught in the oil squirters much easier.
Theoretically, the probability of crankwalk could be directly related to how often you change your oil, and whatever else you put in there.

 

[Keaka26]

"In simple terms, the 6-bolt engine is basically a 1G engine and the 7-bolt is a 2G. There are a variety of differences between the two but it is generally believed that the 6-bolts do not crankwalk as much as the 7s. Note, however, that some feel they do just as much but they don't fail quite so fast when they do. The 6-bolt does not have a crank angle sensor to get chewed up when the crankshaft walks, so the car doesn't die because the sensor is destroyed. Generally speaking, most people feel that you are pretty safe with a 6-bolt."

Umm no, 92.5 and up model year DSMs all came with 7 bolt cranks/flywheels, not just 2nd gens. When I say 92.5 I mean around may of 1992 (build date).

And how could you possibly say that ALL 2gs will crankwalk? Thats the biggest load of horseshit ive ever heard. Ive known more than a few 2gs in the 150k+ range, and most of my friends beat their cars to hell. Why have they not crank walked yet?

From what I know, I will throw out a generalized statement that if you're over 100k-120k miles and havent crankwalked, you probably wont ever get it.

It is amazing what sort of BS gets spread around on the internet, theres people lying, theirs people who are misinformed (blind lead the blind) and theres just plain idiots out there.

 

[jpolizo]

Originally posted by Keaka26
"In simple terms, the 6-bolt engine is basically a 1G engine and the 7-bolt is a 2G. There are a variety of differences between the two but it is generally believed that the 6-bolts do not crankwalk as much as the 7s. Note, however, that some feel they do just as much but they don't fail quite so fast when they do. The 6-bolt does not have a crank angle sensor to get chewed up when the crankshaft walks, so the car doesn't die because the sensor is destroyed. Generally speaking, most people feel that you are pretty safe with a 6-bolt."

Umm no, 92.5 and up model year DSMs all came with 7 bolt cranks/flywheels, not just 2nd gens. When I say 92.5 I mean around may of 1992 (build date).

And how could you possibly say that ALL 2gs will crankwalk? Thats the biggest load of horseshit ive ever heard. Ive known more than a few 2gs in the 150k+ range, and most of my friends beat their cars to hell. Why have they not crank walked yet?

From what I know, I will throw out a generalized statement that if you're over 100k-120k miles and havent crankwalked, you probably wont ever get it.

It is amazing what sort of BS gets spread around on the internet, theres people lying, theirs people who are misinformed (blind lead the blind) and theres just plain idiots out there.

Yes it is amazing.

 

[kr.k]

Originally posted by XATgsx
i am totally convinced on the theory of the oil squirters on the 2g being the problem. they are little check valves, that get crud in them and get stuck open, which in turns robs the main journals of their oil. They the thrust and main bearings fail a.k.a crankwalk. I have a 95gsx which crankwalked twice now, i am rebuilding it my self this time. When i took out the oil squirters, three were stuck open, enough proof for me. I am now putting in a 6 bolt bottom end.

Read about yourself at http://www.magnusmotorsports.com/
Or just take a 6bolt block and a 7 bolt block and compare them. the only main difference is that the 6 bolt block's oil squirters feed off the main galleries, not the crank journals. Why do you think crankwalk is so unpredictable? Engine that are well taken care, oil changes before 3000miles everytime, don't have as much dirt and particles and what not in their oil. Where as dirty engines have more particles in the oil, which in turn get caught in the oil squirters much easier.
Theoretically, the probability of crankwalk could be directly related to how often you change your oil, and whatever else you put in there.

I am rebuilding my 7bolt right now and I wonder if my car would survive if I weld the oil squirters shut!?!

Or should I just replace the old squirters? Did you replace yours when you did your first rebuilds XATgsx?

kristo
... from Europe

 

[Linkizunlistd]

ok so when do you hear the ticking? while you are driving or when the car is just idling?
thanks, jim

Originally posted by jpolizo


Hahaha! Get ready to be flamed mercilessly.

Basically it's a failure of the thrust bearing. That's the bearing that keeps the crankshaft from getting pushed aside when the clutch is pressed against it. When that bearing fails, the crank does get pushed, by the clutch, further into the engine and hence they call it "crank walk".

Any engine can get crankwalk; the 2G DSMs seem to be more prone to it than normal. In the 2G, there's a little sensor that measures the crankshaft position (the crank angle sensor). When the thing crankwalks, the metal plate on the crankshaft that trips the sensor will actually hit the sensor and you get a ticking sound. That's about the time your engine is toast. Somewhat before that you can measure the crank getting pushed out of position; it's not supposed to move much at all.

Do a search on "crankwalk" and you'll find a ton of info on it.

 

[XATgsx]

Originally posted by kr.k



I am rebuilding my 7bolt right now and I wonder if my car would survive if I weld the oil squirters shut!?!

Or should I just replace the old squirters? Did you replace yours when you did your first rebuilds XATgsx?

kristo
... from Europe

I didn't rebuild it myself the first time. I also thought about plugging the oil squirter holes but then I decided not to take the risk. Honestly I wouldn't waste my money with a 7 bolt. you could probably find a used 6bolt short block for the money you would spend on the 7 bolt.