We found the limit/weak link of a stock 4G63.

[DSM007]

Stock head casting. Just gasket matched on the intake to a 1G port by me. And the exhaust ports were gasket matched to a Evo 8 4 layer gasket. I am using a custom 3" sleeved non-turbo throttle body. It was built by Hal Landry. The throttle body still uses a stock throttle plate.

The turbo was flowing that air. As read by the MAF. But, the motor didn't really seem to like it much. It did surge slightly if you rolled into it from a low rpm or low boost. It only surged for about 300-500 or so rpms. But, it did that on a very well ported and built 2G head with a eagle/ross combo on the 2G the turbo came off. It surged on that car in the same rpm range at similar boost levels. Then we attributed that to the small E cover. My motor was just one big bottleneck. The 2G used a 1G intake at the time as well.

We will see what the little turbo that could will do soon on a 2.4l, 10:1, magnus intake, FP3x 4G64 that is bored .060" over.

E85 FTW.

Steven

I have to say ya got big balls....well very big to run that combination,I guess your going to push the E85 to the limits......I cant wait to see the results.....I remember I was told I had big balls to run a 20G quite a few years ago although ....good luck,but Im sure you have the tuning experience to make it run well.....does the fuel cool that well like menthanol to run that much compression?

 

[tsidrift1]

What do you have to do to run e85? Does it work on a moderatley stock car?

 

[biglady112]

The alcohol burns significantly cooler than gasoline. When we first started testing, it was winter time. The first time we got the fuel on our hands it damn near froze my fingers right there. I have a fair amount of tuning experience. Enough to get the job done.

I actually run E85 in my laser as well. It is literally BONE STOCK. It did not like trying to run it straight. It was super lean. So lean the car was literally running out of fuel during cruising. I have been able to run it safely up to a 60/40 E85/gasoline mix with no issues. I still get over 25mpg regularly. I usually average around 28-29mpg though.

To do it properly, you need to have a sufficient fuel supply for your setup. Something to properly control the injectors. Dsmlink works great, I do fear that AFC's will have a harder time with this however. AEM also controls this fuel very well. There are a number of us who are running it on stock fuel lines, braided fuel lines, reinforced pushlock lines, nomex and on and on. The laser as I stated above is bone stock. The mirage uses -12, -10 and -8 reinforced pushlock lines with a plastic fuel cell. We have had good luck with stock fuel rails so far. I run a modified stocker in the mirage. It has -8 bungs welded on each side. The laser is still the factory rail and no issues have come yet. We use an unannodized -10 buschur rail on one car, 2 -10 annodized magnus rails on another.

Steven

 

[Stapl3]

Blaha ran a 10.5 at 132mph on a stock 6 bolt (except for 2g pistons). That was years ago. The car was up on ebay two years ago, years after the fact, still going strong.

The weak link is tuning.

 

[biglady112]

Tuning is not the problem here. But I do agree that will hold you back no matter the setup.

Steven

 

[sbiggi]

If you made 460whp SAE on MAC's dyno on the same setup it blew up on, then tuning was the problem.

I put down 395whp on Revolutions dyno which would have been 500whp SAE on MACs. Same setup I was running for 30 or more passes and lots of street pulls.

I nuked a valve running e85, not sure why, everything seemed fine.

According to your pictures, you burned a hole through the crown of the piston.

 

[DSMunknown]

How about larger photos (or links to larger photos)?

 

[Dorifto]

That's beautiful.

I guess I now know what I'm doing with a T70 and my junkyard motor. DSMLink here I come.

 

[4g63t]

Wish I had better pictures. We pitched the block before I looked at the pictures. My roommate has a tendancy(I know of now) to take pictures zoomed all the way out. I do not have any better. I would have snapped more but we went and scrapped the metal for a few bucks.

Steven

How about larger photos (or links to larger photos)?

?read?

 

[biglady112]

Seth I am not really interested in your opinions. If it takes nitrous to get your 50 trim into the 11's then I would think tuning is your issue. Keith G ran 12.3 on pump gas at 19psi. He did that with an FP Green. One of the big pieces left was most of the top of the piston. The dyno was done at 33psi. The motor let go at 39psi. This was all verified through the AEM 5 bar map sensor. And no, it 100% did not burn a hole through the piston. The thing literally shattered. You could see all the casting marks were the piston broke. Plenty of knowledgable locals saw the inside of the motor, it was confirmed to be neither detonation or preignition. All the other 3 holes were great. The #4 rod and pin were still intact. The piston was in the oil pan.

Not saying anything here. This is just simply how far MY stock motor made it. Others may get more, others may get less. I am no record breaker in any way. Mike Rizzotti and Al Blaha take that title.

Steven

 

[DSMunknown]

?read?

Missed that. Thanks.

 

[Burnett03]

Seth I am not really interested in your opinions. If it takes nitrous to get your 50 trim into the 11's then I would think tuning is your issue. Keith G ran 12.3 on pump gas at 19psi. He did that with an FP Green. One of the big pieces left was most of the top of the piston. The dyno was done at 33psi. The motor let go at 39psi. This was all verified through the AEM 5 bar map sensor. And no, it 100% did not burn a hole through the piston. The thing literally shattered. You could see all the casting marks were the piston broke. Plenty of knowledgable locals saw the inside of the motor, it was confirmed to be neither detonation or preignition. All the other 3 holes were great. The #4 rod and pin were still intact. The piston was in the oil pan.

Not saying anything here. This is just simply how far MY stock motor made it. Others may get more, others may get less. I am no record breaker in any way. Mike Rizzotti and Al Blaha take that title.

Steven

i agree alot of us in colorado are sick of hearing seth's opinion(s) Good work steven, thats how you blow a hole through a block!

 

[RipperXX]

It just blow's my mind how much money some of you can afford to just throw away. Personally I would have loved to see how far it could have gone with just some half decent aftermarket rods and pistons.


BTW, did you inspect the bearings at all? Curious as to how they looked.

 

[Burnett03]

if you read the first post it says he didnt pay anything for the motor.

 

[RipperXX]

Well I guess I just get upset seeing someone who doesn't seem to care if they blow there engine. When I work so hard for what little I have.

However dont get me wrong it is impressive.

 

[biglady112]

Well I will say it was pretty devastating the day we took the motor out of the car. I was not expecting or wanting that. It cost me money in some way or another. I truly wanted to see how far I could go. I was just a few weeks away from insalling a GT42 on the stocker. Bearings looked just fine. The motor was run with low timing so no need for the bearings to be beat up. Oil changes very regularly.

It was a fun learning experience. Sad to see another motor gone, but there are thousands apon thousands in the junk yards out there. I prefer non turbo blocks anyway, so not a real loss to me.

Steven

 

[Dorifto]

Can't really put a price on R&D.

I think I'll use my current engine as a test bed to hone in my tuning skills, then assemble my other block with stock rods and crank, ARP hardware, and decent pistons [Probably Arias or Wiseco].

biglady112, this was the inspiration that rekindled my interest in building my Eclipse. For that, I thank you.

Now, to find more N/T blocks ...

 

[sbiggi]

Seth I am not really interested in your opinions. If it takes nitrous to get your 50 trim into the 11's then I would think tuning is your issue. Keith G ran 12.3 on pump gas at 19psi. He did that with an FP Green.

Lol, ok. I would think you would notice my traps speeds have always been good enough for a 11. My driving hasnt.

 

[ghostcar]

what kind of A/F do you personally tune for on E85?

 

[Turbo Monk3y]

I personally think tuning was the problem... I bought my 6 bolt long block 3-4 years ago with 65K on it and I have well over 110K on it now... Daily driven 7 days a week and raced every single weekend and over 400 track passes through out those years... my talon weighs 3310 with me in it and Its been doing 125-129mph traps for a very long time... And it still runs great.. I can't get it to blow up so I'm retiring it as we speak.. The built 2.4L is a days from being assembled and dropped in... There are also many others that are still on the stock 6 bolt bottom that are well over my times and hp... I still think the E85 tuning is new to everyone and eventually, pioneers like yourself help pave the way to fine tuning with this type of fuel.. none the less the hp numbers that were produced are still amazing even with that stock 2g head....

 

[biglady112]

Well, as I said before, the map sensor verified MAF was seeing 61lbs/min. This car was run hard for 6 months. I would say an average of 20-30 pulls were done a night in the car. We would take the car out about 3-4 nights a week. So the car saw as many as 600-700 pulls I would say since I got it running. We just kept turning the boost up until it let go. It lasted about 750 miles at 39psi. It made one trip to the track in top form.

With a slick rubbing pass it ran 12.2@104. Put the street tires on so it wasn't a wasted trip, 14.3@126. This was my very first time to the track ever with FWD. So probably still more was left in it.

I was tuning for 11.8-12.0:1 gasoline air to fuel ratios on the wideband. Like I said, I am no record breaker, but this is how far my stock motor went. 510whp. Remember, that was entirely stock. Minus the head studs and head gasket.

Steven