Water Injection on our cars?

[KeltonDSMer]

There is endless info on this in one of the forums at RMDSM. Someone posted a few links that are really helpful.

The same thread also talks about propane injection too.

 

[RallyxDave]

I run my own custom WI kit on my Talon and laugh at everyone who says WI is a "band aid". Ok, put down the Corky Bell book and pull your head out of your ass.

Sorry, just had to mention that.

http://www.4x4racecar.net/water_injection.htm

 

[-=TWITCH=-]

I also run a DIY kit that I made and love it. If you guys are looking for info on building your own kit check out this site

www.H20injection.com it has all the info you will need!

Chris

 

[Defiant]

Originally posted by RallyxDave
I run my own custom WI kit on my Talon and laugh at everyone who says WI is a "band aid". Ok, put down the Corky Bell book

Does Corky call it a band-aid? My god, and I thought he was bright.

 

[Spyke169]

alright, so you run water injection. Water is not conpressable so thus the air fuel is compressed more. So don't you need higher octane gas? but the higher octane gas won't burn as good without the water injection. an I really dumb or missing something? this is just the over view I have, so will someone explain more?

 

[RallyxDave]

The main benefit of water is that it has a cooling effect inside your engine which will help to supress detonation. You won't gain any power just by adding WI unless you're allready detonating. You see the gains because the water allows you to run several PSI more boost. It's a huge benefit for people like me that don't run race gas and don't have the most efficient turbo/IC setups (16g & Alamo SMIC).

 

[Defiant]

Originally posted by Spyke169
alright, so you run water injection. Water is not conpressable so thus the air fuel is compressed more. So don't you need higher octane gas? but the higher octane gas won't burn as good without the water injection. an I really dumb or missing something? this is just the over view I have, so will someone explain more?

Properly set-up, WI will be introducing water in a vapor state, which is compressible. Consensus seems to be that it acts as a combustion buffer, making the fuel/air charge burn at a more controlled rate. You don't use enough that it should measurably affect the compression ratio.

 

[Diz]

Sorry, but the water has to be injected in the liquid state. It then vaporizes to the gaseous state, thereby absorbing heat. The absorption of this heat, which is required for the change of state, lowers the charge air temperature. It is like heating water on the stove. A lot of extra heat input is required to force the water over to the boiling (vaporizing) phase-change. This is in addition to simply raising the temperature to the boiling point.

 

[djpast]

Sorry, but the water has to be injected in the liquid state. It then vaporizes to the gaseous state, thereby absorbing heat. The absorption of this heat, which is required for the change of state, lowers the charge air temperature. It is like heating water on the stove. A lot of extra heat input is required to force the water over to the boiling (vaporizing) phase-change. This is in addition to simply raising the temperature to the boiling point.

actually the water is sparyed thru the nozzles at about 100 psi, which atomizes the water into a gas-like state. its comparible to reallllllly foggy day

 

[Diz]

The water is vaporized when it is sprayed through the water-injection nozzle. The vaporization does not convert it into steam (the gaseous state), but rather breaks it into very fine liquid particles. The particles are more quickly converted into steam, thereby absorbing heat and lowering the temperature of the air/fuel mixture. Decreases in temperature are typically about the same as for a well-designed intercooler, only without the pressure drop across the intercooler core and piping. We're not talking about a 2-degree drop here- 100-degree F drops are not difficult to achieve.

Buick almost decided to go with water injection instead of intercooling on the '86 Regals. Most people assume that they were worried that owners would not refill the water bottles and then would destroy their motors causing huge warranty problems. Intercoolers are pretty idiot-proof.

BTW, a vaporizing nozzle is not completely necessary. A stream of water will flash to steam also, albeit slower.

 

[crankbender]

Have you thought about using alcohol injection instead? it is cheap, easy to come by, same effect, and adds fuel keeping the flamefront moving instead of hampering it like water vapor does.

 

[djpast]

alot of ppl run a 50/50 mix of alch and water (windshield fluid is perfect)

you get the best of both worlds

 

[Defiant]

Originally posted by djpast
alot of ppl run a 50/50 mix of alch and water (windshield fluid is perfect)

Nearly- the blue tint will leave deposits in the system, but is apparently harmless to the engine. The main payoff is prevention of freezing in cold climates. The drawback can be deterioration of seals in the pump and other areas.

 

[dsmturboawd]

Originally posted by Defiant
Nearly- the blue tint will leave deposits in the system, but is apparently harmless to the engine.

if its harmless, then its perfect. internal motor part color shouldn't matter to anyone really.

just think, after a few thousand miles, you can sell your blue tinted motor internals to some asshole on ebay for a rediclous amount of money. people love shit like that. :laugh:

 

[-=TWITCH=-]

Originally posted by dsmturboawd
if its harmless, then its perfect. internal motor part color shouldn't matter to anyone really.

just think, after a few thousand miles, you can sell your blue tinted motor internals to some asshole on ebay for a rediclous amount of money. people love shit like that. :laugh:

BUt tge blue stuff clogs JETS badly stay away from the Blus stuff. windsheild washer fluid.

Chris

 

[REDBLUR]

Originally posted by crankbender
Have you thought about using alcohol injection instead? it is cheap, easy to come by, same effect, and adds fuel keeping the flamefront moving instead of hampering it like water vapor does.

Alcohol does also cool the charge better, but when comparing the specific heats of water to methanol or ethanol, you will notice that waters is much higher (almost double). Water does a much better job of removing heat from the charge.

Running pure alcohol also has its disadvantages. One, alcohol in pure form has a low flash point, and under hood temperatures and a bottle full of pure alcohol could ignite, and interestingly enough, you can't see alcohol burn (no visible flame).
Second, many of the components in pumps used aren't alcohol friendly (alcohol tends to eat away at seals, espcially in purer forms).
Those are two reasons I can think of at the moment.

Mixing methanol, which has an unusually high heat of vaporization (compared to any other common type of fuel and alcohol), with water seems to give the best of both worlds when mixed in a 50/50 ratio. This has been shown time and time again. It is still not completley understood exactly how water affects combustion (happens too fast) but it "magically" does seem to prove beneficial to the combustion process when added in the right proportions.

I personally feel, that although adding pure alcohol does has some cooling effects, in a sense you are just adding more fuel for combustion (alcohol having an octane rating of ~100), .

 

[nanokpsi]

Alcohol does also cool the charge better, but when comparing the specific heats of water to methanol or ethanol, you will notice that waters is much higher (almost double). Water does a much better job of removing heat from the charge.

Running pure alcohol also has its disadvantages. One, alcohol in pure form has a low flash point, and under hood temperatures and a bottle full of pure alcohol could ignite, and interestingly enough, you can't see alcohol burn (no visible flame).
Second, many of the components in pumps used aren't alcohol friendly (alcohol tends to eat away at seals, espcially in purer forms).
Those are two reasons I can think of at the moment.

Mixing methanol, which has an unusually high heat of vaporization (compared to any other common type of fuel and alcohol), with water seems to give the best of both worlds when mixed in a 50/50 ratio. This has been shown time and time again. It is still not completley understood exactly how water affects combustion (happens too fast) but it "magically" does seem to prove beneficial to the combustion process when added in the right proportions.

I personally feel, that although adding pure alcohol does has some cooling effects, in a sense you are just adding more fuel for combustion (alcohol having an octane rating of ~100), .

Actually denatured alcohol (ethanol) has an octane rating of 110 and methanol is rated at 113. I am lloking at getting the smc kit. I foung some windhsield washer fluid that contains Methanol but it doesn't say in what proportion. The gn guys usually run 100% denatured alcohol but I head it is better to have a mixture. I would love something like this jsut to give quassi race gas performance everyday.