2G Update: Spyder Changed my manual tranny fluid & now my car won't go into gear.....

[Im Dabom]

I have a 97 Spyder GS, my husband changed the manual transaxle fluid on Sunday, I drove the car Monday and everything was fine, I drove it yesterday to work, again everything was fine.
I ran my daughter to tumbling class and notices that 1st and 2nd gear were difficult to shift into. I thought it was my imagination. Got in it this morning to go to work and couldn't shift it into ANY gear. Ended up having to take my gas guzzling Sequoia.

Could this new problem be due to the recent fluid change?

I have a 2.4 engine and the first AutoZone worker told us we had to get the fluid from the dealer, the second worker said as long as it's GL-4 or higher we were okay (I confirmed this in the manual when I got home). We picked Valvoline Synthetic 75-90W.

Any one have any suggestions?

 

[Im Dabom]

Come on, people. None of this has to do with the transmission fluid. The hydraulics have shit the bed, probably at the slave end.
Pull the dust cover from the slave cylinder and look for leakage. Check the slave hard line for cracking, and check the driver's footwell for a flood of fluid.

On an N/T transmission, you MUST use factory fluid ONLY. Chrysler or Mitsubishi either one. No Synchromesh, Royal Purple, B&M or any other exotics, and no synthetics.

There was/is a small leak in the master cylinder, it does leak down the footwell, your correct on that. But there's no flood. I try to check the resevoir weekly and refill it as necessary since it's such a small leak. We checked the slave when we bled it and it's fine (except for the dust cap on the bleed screw is missing).

I gather from reading these boards that if I replace the master I should also replace the slave, is that correct?

My husband is concerned that the preassure plate is bad because of the metal shavings he found in the gear oil and the fact that the original oil smelled burnt. He wants to take it to the shop to have them fix it. I think he's tired of messing with it. If I knew it was just the master/slave I could probably convince him to do the work himself.

I also wanted to add that I have a 2.4 engine and according to the owners manual, doesn't require factory fluid, just GL-4. Is that not the case?

I know this might seem insulting, but are you 100% sure you put the right amount of fluid in the transmission? Seems dumb, but sometimes it's a missed point. Also, rule of thumb is always bleed your clutch, and then bleed it again Also, what method are you using to bleed the clutch? Are you checking for movement from the slave rod?

Not insulting at all.....we added fluid until it ran back out and we bled the clutch twice. We used the instructions from this thread:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-drivetrain/213503-how-properly-bleed-your-hydraulic-clutch.html

Can you explain checking for movement from the slave rod?

 

[blcknspo0ln]

Not insulting at all.....we added fluid until it ran back out and we bled the clutch twice. We used the instructions from this thread:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-drivetrain/213503-how-properly-bleed-your-hydraulic-clutch.html

Can you explain checking for movement from the slave rod?

Have your husband pump the clutch in and out while you stand and look at the slave cylinder. The rod should push against the finger of the fork smoothly and should travel about 1/3" or so. If you notice that the slave isn't moving the rod or it only moves slightly, then you may have found your problem. It's also a good idea to replace the master at the same time, since it may be the contributing issue too.

 

[Auto RS T]

There was/is a small leak in the master cylinder, it does leak down the footwell, your correct on that. But there's no flood. I try to check the resevoir weekly and refill it as necessary since it's such a small leak. We checked the slave when we bled it and it's fine (except for the dust cap on the bleed screw is missing).

I gather from reading these boards that if I replace the master I should also replace the slave, is that correct?

My husband is concerned that the preassure plate is bad because of the metal shavings he found in the gear oil and the fact that the original oil smelled burnt. He wants to take it to the shop to have them fix it. I think he's tired of messing with it. If I knew it was just the master/slave I could probably convince him to do the work himself.

I also wanted to add that I have a 2.4 engine and according to the owners manual, doesn't require factory fluid, just GL-4. Is that not the case?

Yes, when you do the master, a good rule of thumb is to replace the slave.

If the pressure plate was bad, you wouldn't have shavings internally from your transmission oil, it is external from the oil and sits inside the bellhousing. The shavings are coming from inside the tranny where the gears, bearings, hubs, sliders, and synchros are if they came out with the oil.

Any leak in a hydraulic system is a problem, no matter how small. You very well may have found the problem at the master. I would replace it and the slave at this time.

 

[Im Dabom]

Yes, when you do the master, a good rule of thumb is to replace the slave.

Any leak in a hydraulic system is a problem, no matter how small. You very well may have found the problem at the master. I would replace it and the slave at this time.

I just ran and bought the master and the slave and I just got off the phone convincing my husband to do this one last repair (for this week) After this he's free to put it in the shop!

 

[blcknspo0ln]

Remember to bleed, bleed, and bleed again!

 

[Im Dabom]

Remember to bleed, bleed, and bleed again!

I hear ya! Last time we went through a whole bottle of brake fluid.

 

[ekanddsm]

Defiant was right(as usual)

Does the car go into all the gears with the engine off?

If it does, the you got a clutch problem.

Gl-4 and Gl-5 fluids have different properties,

The way it was explained to me was that gl-4 was not was slick/slippery as gl-5

Synchronisers are brakes inside the transmission, they slow gears down so that hubs will line up so you can get into the next gear.

If you put 5 in where 4 belongs those synchro's have to do more work to slow down the gear.

gl-4 and gl-5 can be the same weight (80-90) but make a trans not shift smooth any more.
(grinding when shifting to fast.)

 

[Im Dabom]

Does the car go into all the gears with the engine off?

If it does, the you got a clutch problem.

The car goes into gear while running but it's not smooth like it used to be, it takes some effort.

My husband is going to replace the master and the slave cylinders this weekend and then we're going to put it in the shop for the rest of the clutch work that he thinks it needs.

 

[Gs Dewd]

Also as you stated there was metal flakes in the tranny fluid. A bad pressure plate will not shed metal flakes inside of the transmission. You have sycnros that are going bad. Any metal found in the fluid is not a good sign. With a new master and slave you may fix the shifting problem for now but your trans is on the way out.

 

[Evil_speedracer]

I feel that it is important to note something here about GL-5 that I do not see mentioned in this thread. It has been found that there is something about the GL-5 that eats away at the syncros in the tranny. This would cause the metal flakes and grinding and such when trying to get the car in gear. The syncros are brass, which has something to do with it too. The Mitsu dealers I have talked to about this in Co have all told me that GL-4 is what the factory calls for, and that you will need to use the friction additive as well.

Just passing on what I have learned.

EDIT: The GL-5 is corrosive to yellow metals due to additives found in most brands.

 

[Im Dabom]

I'm confused......

I drained out the GL-5 synthetic and put in Coastal for GL-3, GL-4 and GL-5.....

Autozone and Advanced Auto in my area do not sell a GL-4 only gear oil. Is this coastal crap the wrong stuff too?

 

[luv2rallye]

I'm confused......

I drained out the GL-5 synthetic and put in Coastal for GL-3, GL-4 and GL-5.....

Autozone and Advanced Auto in my area do not sell a GL-4 only gear oil. Is this coastal crap the wrong stuff too?

YES get it out of there! The oil must NOT have GL-5 on it. If it does, it is GL-5 no matter what other GL numbers are on there.
And Evil_speedracer is absolutely correct about GL-5 being corrosive to yellow metals like your brass syncros! More info on oil recommendations: Recommended Transmission Oils- Team Rip Engineering.

 

[ekanddsm]

Save yourself a headache, Go get it from the dealer. Ask for a parts manager, cause a counter guy is on comission and will sell you what he thinks you need.

Does anyone have a part number for the correct fluid, and additive?

 

[Im Dabom]

Ugh! I don't want to even go to my husband AGAIN and tell him that I need him to drain and buy MORE gear oil. And I don't like the lady who works the parts counter at my local Mitsu dealer. She's give off the vibe that she thinks I'm a PITA.

But I can't find GL-4 only gear oil at Autozone or Advanced and the only kind I find in a google search is Redline MTL and Defiant said NO synthetics!

So if anybody has that part # I'd appreciate it.....

Thanks for everyones help!

 

[Im Dabom]

Save yourself a headache, Go get it from the dealer. Ask for a parts manager, cause a counter guy is on comission and will sell you what he thinks you need.

Does anyone have a part number for the correct fluid, and additive?

I went to my dealer on Friday. They were all out of GL-4, they told me to go to NAPA they had it there and she was kind enough to call to double check. The NAPA guy told her he only has GL-5 synthetic. I said that I heard you couldn't use that she went back to the service department to double check and came back and said that the service tech said that I could use GL-5.



My husband changed the master and slave cylinders yesterday, we bled the clutch about a hundred times but there wasn't any change. The pedal was still slightly mushy and it wouldn't go into any gears. Today I'm having it towed to the service shop and I'll update with their diagnosis later in the week.

 

[ekanddsm]

I have 100 dollars that says the "Service Tech" at SATAN(aka Mitsu dealer) wasnt even working for Mitsu when your car was sold. Dealers change "Service Tech"s more than toilet paper rolls in the restrooms.

Good luck, your at their mercy now.

 

[Im Dabom]

Just to clarify, I didn't have my car towed to the Mitsu dealer. I don't have that kind of money plus after Friday's experience it's obvious that they don't know what their talking about.