Turbo downpipe questions

[BlckTalon]

I'm looking into doing a project with a 1G AWD talon or eclipse with a

slowboy racing Stage II long block
Slowboy racing equal length tubular turbo manifold
Evo III 16g turbo
38mm tial external wastegate
and the slowboy racing 1G intercooler

My question is, what downpipe would work with the Evo III 16g turbo? I want a very built street car thats capable around 400 hp. I'm not looking to run the 1/4 in 8 sec, i just want something that would be street friendly with potential for future plans and quite reliable. Any input would be appreciated, I'm sure the majority of you out there know more then me. Thanks

 

[TSIfreek]

Well you can go 2 ways. First I would go with a fully ported 02 housing or a quality tubular piece to prevent boost creep with the free flowing exhaust. Me personally I would go with a 2.5" down pipe no cat and then a 3" cat back. I would go to a 3" turbo back if your over 450 HP but 2.5 will do just fine and be less noisy and boost creap wont be an issue. There are many cars out there with 2.5 turbo backs in the mid 11s.

 

[daren_p]

I think your new to the turbo world so I'll try & help you out (sorry if its to basic of an answer). Your evoIII turbo has the same exhaust flange/bolt pattern as the stock 14b turbo does. After the turbo first comes the O2 sensor housing and then the downpipe. The min you want is a stock 1g ported O2 housing. The order of upgrades would be next a ported 2g housing, then a ported evoIII housing (exits on a slightly different angle so is best to get a downpipe that is designed to work properly with this housing, www.roadraceengineering.com makes one) then finally a tubuler piece. If price doesn't matter I'd go with the tubular unit. If your looking for something abit cheeper I would defently recommend the ported evoIII housing with the rre downpipe, this should be plenty for your setup. The cheepest route is the ported 2g as I wouldn't consider the 1g housing as it is alot smaller then the 2g to start with. Once you have your O2 housing any downpipe designed for the 1g awd should bolt up. Just to mix you up a little some companies offer what is called an O2 eliminator downpipe which as the name says replaces both you O2 sensor housing and downpipe with one pipe. They tend to cost more.

 

[BlckTalon]

If i wanted to go the route of an O2 eliminator downpipe, who makes a good one? Price isn't too much of an issue right now.

 

[CanadianTSi]

IF your gonna do all that go with something bigger than a 16g...

 

[BlckTalon]

Well if i were to go with something bigger then the 16g what do you recommend?

 

[CanadianTSi]

Well if you wanna keep a nice street car, any of the 50 trims would work nicely.

 

[BlckTalon]

I've heard some bad things about the 50 trims... whats the controversy about those?

 

[TSIfreek]

Forced performance green is a great street turbo and will support 450- 500 HP alone. But speed costs money these arnt cheep around 1000.

 

[cb3016]

reliable? you can throw that away really quick with any built car, rule of thumb I have found is make sure your beater has a full tank.

 

[daren_p]

Forced performance green is a great street turbo and will support 450- 500 HP alone. But speed costs money these arnt cheep around 1000.

$1000 , Last time I checked they were $1300

http://linux.forcedperformance.net/...uct_Code=NTDSMFPGREEN&Category_Code=DSM-Turbo

Some type of 50 trim seems to be the turbo of choice of many dsmers. What have you heard bad about them? Origionally PTE had some reliability issues but they made some changes that were supposed to fix that, but some guy still have issues. Others have said the turbonetics 50 trims are hit & miss as well. Just do a search on 50 trims here, you can read for days

What are you really looking for in a turbo? The evoIII is a great turbo and so are the 50 trims (which there a huge variey of). The evoIII will spool quicker but gives up abit in the top end compared to a 50. Are you looking for quick stop light to stop light pulls? go with the evoIII. Are you looking for a highway turbo go 50 trim. Guy have gone 11's on the evoIII and it should be pretty easy to run 12's with it so don't let its small physical size fool you. If you start with the evoIII add some cams and a sheet metal intake manifold, you will have the best of both worlds, quick spool and good top end as well.

 

[BlckTalon]

That was another question i had, I hear a lot of people go with the hks 272 cams... is that correct? And also do you guys go with intake and exhaust cams? or just intake or just exhaust?

I was thinking about the magnus sheet metal intake manifold with the stacks, any suggestions? Should i stay away or does anyone know of a better one?

 

[daren_p]

That was another question i had, I hear a lot of people go with the hks 272 cams... is that correct? And also do you guys go with intake and exhaust cams? or just intake or just exhaust?

I was thinking about the magnus sheet metal intake manifold with the stacks, any suggestions? Should i stay away or does anyone know of a better one?

The magnus SMIM is probably one of the best ones out there. They are an excellent upgrade, you can see 40 hp gain even on a small 16g series. For cams get inatke and exhaust. HKS offers 264's & 272's. Forced performance also has some nice cams that are supposed to make abit more power then the HKS and are cheeper to buy (HKS 550-600 a set FP are $430). FP1's are like the 264 & the FP2's are like the 272's. Some run same size intake and exhaust while others run the 264 intake and 272 exhaust combo. Which ones you descide really depends on the turbo you chose. With the larger 272 you lose some bottom end but they really shine in the 7000+ rpms where the larger turbos make their power. For info of Forced performance cams look here:

www.forcedperformance.com

 

[BlckTalon]

Ok, so if I lay it all out, I think this should be a good match for what I want. i'm looking to make about 350-400 hp on a street car, and i want a little better bottom end then top end.

Evo III 16g (better for bottom end performance?)
Magnus sheet metal intake manifold
hks 264 intake and exhaust cams (I don't want to go too beefy)

Otherwise I was thinking of the 50 trim ball bearing turbo that Forced Performance is offering. I would like the spool of a ball bearing turbo, but the evoIII 16g is also looking nice. Thanks

 

[daren_p]

Ok, so if I lay it all out, I think this should be a good match for what I want. i'm looking to make about 350-400 hp on a street car, and i want a little better bottom end then top end.

Evo III 16g (better for bottom end performance?)
Magnus sheet metal intake manifold
hks 264 intake and exhaust cams (I don't want to go too beefy)

Otherwise I was thinking of the 50 trim ball bearing turbo that Forced Performance is offering. I would like the spool of a ball bearing turbo, but the evoIII 16g is also looking nice. Thanks

That looks like a good street setup. First though are you talking 350-400 hp at the wheels or at the crank? (to compare factory rating on cars are at the crank) With cams and smim you should be able to see 20 psi from an evoIII right around 3500 rpms (this will vary slightly as every car is different). Like I said with that smim and cams you will pull nicely right from 3500 to 7500 rpms. For the cams if you don't have to worry about emissions you might think about the 264 inatke and 272 exhaust combo. (fp1 intake, fp2 exhaust). I would actually recommend the fp cams over the hks. I will be buying cams this winter & after alot of research I will be going fp.

If you are looking at a bb turbo from fp, you would probably be talking about the 3052? Yes this is a very nice turbo but this setup will probably cost you double of what an evo or bolt on 50 trim would. This turbo has a custom exhaust housing, which is very good for making power but you need a custom O2 housing and downpipe and an external wategate. This setup can run you $2000+

If you want more of a bolt on, FP's Green turbo is a great street turbo, it has more power potential then the evo but will take 500 or so rpms longer to spool. Other 50 trim bolt on bb turbo's to check out are the new pte units with a garett center section or the sbr gt series turbos (www.slowboyracing.com).

Just so you have some comparison with my setup (see profile) not yet having cams or smim, with boost set @ 18 psi, from a roll I can pull on a 2000+ corvette. With boost turned to 20, cams & smim you should easily be making 50 more hp.

One other thing, in your origional post you were looking at getting a tubuler exhaust manifold. I wouldn't waste your money, instead go with the SBR cast manifold, it will do the job nicely. Unless ofcourse you like to spend your money on shiny parts

 

[BlckTalon]

One other thing, in your origional post you were looking at getting a tubuler exhaust manifold. I wouldn't waste your money, instead go with the SBR cast manifold, it will do the job nicely. Unless ofcourse you like to spend your money on shiny parts

Ha actually I did think the tubular would be the best, but after a little more research i found out the cast would be better for my hp goals and I did like the SBR cast manifold.

I'm looking to do around 350 to the wheels. Are the slowboy racing ball bearing turbos pretty good? I've heard both sides of the story about SBR and I was looking at turbos a little more reputable but I have to admit I don't know much about their turbos. Thanks

 

[daren_p]

I have heard some bad things about SBR (on the board here, so you don't always know where its coming from), but I've delt with them several times and have always been very happy with their customer service & will continue to buy parts there.

350 whp can be done on the evoIII no problem with race gas but on pump your getting close to the limits. Also your tuning method and your actual ability to tune will make a huge difference on the actual hp you can make. The SBR GT series turbos use the garette gt30 center section and just add on one of their cast exhaust manifolds that allow it to be a direct bolt on for us. A gt11 or 12 should meet and exceede your goal.

 

[BlckTalon]

Thanks for the help. I'm actually going to be leaving the tuning up to the professionals since I don't have too much experience in that. I believe ams has an awd dyno in Chicago which isn't too far from me and I do believe that they do tunins as well... otherwise I'm going to have to find someone else to tune. With the SBR GT11 or 12, I would need the O2 housing with that correct? and also, do you have any idea what downpipe woudl fit that or would I need to get a custom downpipe fabricated?

 

[daren_p]

Thanks for the help. I'm actually going to be leaving the tuning up to the professionals since I don't have too much experience in that. I believe ams has an awd dyno in Chicago which isn't too far from me and I do believe that they do tunins as well... otherwise I'm going to have to find someone else to tune. With the SBR GT11 or 12, I would need the O2 housing with that correct? and also, do you have any idea what downpipe woudl fit that or would I need to get a custom downpipe fabricated?

Yes all turbos need some sort of an O2 housing. The sbr gt series have the same flange on the turbine housing as the stock turbos so they will bolt to any stock style housing. Cheeper route go evoIII O2 housing ported, (if you do go the evoIII O2 housing route I would go with one of the RRE downpipes that was made specifically for that O2 housing, since it exits on a slightly different angle compared to the stock O2 housing) more expensive go tubuler, victory performance makes some nice O2 housings and you can get them in basically any configuration you want. The downpipe would still just be a standard 1g awd downpipe, I like the RRE downpipe & this is what I run. There are alot of other vendors that make downpipes and they are all basically the same. Just make sure you get one with a flex section, mandrel bends and one made from stainless steel. Inlet should 2.5 or 3" (doesn't make much of a difference unless you are trying to make huge hp, which you are not), the 2.5 inlet allows more room for oil filter etc. and then should expand to 3" at or just after the flex section. You will want to run 3" exhaust all the way back.

 

[BlckTalon]

Thanks a lot, thats a lot of good info that i could use.

 

[cb3016]

SBR is great, they don't jerk u around like most others do. i'd jus stay away from Andysautosport.com they are as crooked as my inbred cousins teath

 

[BlckTalon]

Hey I've got another question that goes along with the O2 housing question. I'm going to be running a tial 38mm wastegate off of the sbr cast manifold. And I'm pretty sure I'm going to be running the EvoIII 16g turbo with the flapper welded shut. Now my question is, when I get the O2 housing, does it matter if it has the dump tube back into the exhaust since the flapper will be welded shut? Or is there a different route I should go.

Oh and one more question for any of the more educated people out there other then me... I was looking at getting the manifold and the turbo ported, should i get the inlet side and the outlet side ported? or should i just do inlet? or just outlet?

Thanks a lot!

 

[daren_p]

As far as the wg goes I would think as long as the dumps completely separated from the turbine outlet (ie so you don't get any exhaust leaks) you should be fine. Something to consider, if police are strict in your area I wouldn't go with an external dump, their not street legal. You could always just put a reg style O2 housing that has the wg routed back into the exhaust or if you get a tubler unit then make them with just a turbine outlet and no wh passage. Someone with external wg experience can chime in.

As far as porting goes get both the inlet & outlet done. Maybe something you might want to consider doing yourself. If you have an air compressor & die grinder all you need are a couple carbide bits and some sand rolls. It will take a few hours but isn't hard to do at all & to pay someone to do it can add up alot. If you do go evoIII you might want to read over some of the posts on here as this turbo is notorious for boost creep but with a proper port job that can be eliminated. Most companies don't do the additional porting that is required on the evoIII.

 

[BlckTalon]

Well I was looking at the victory performance tubular O2 housings and I think I'm giong to get that but without the dump tube. I don't know of any of the police around here that have given any of my friends problems with their cars so I'll risk it.

Also, I know about the creep issues with the evoIII. I was looking at the evoIII from sbr and they do offer port jobs on the inlet and outlet portions of the turbo. Would that do the job to take care of the creep? And also, doesn't an external wastegate pretty much take care of the creep? I'm probably mistaken but I could have sworn I read that in a number of posts.

P.s. daren_p, you are being a great help and I really appreciate it. Thank you

 

[daren_p]

Well I was looking at the victory performance tubular O2 housings and I think I'm giong to get that but without the dump tube. I don't know of any of the police around here that have given any of my friends problems with their cars so I'll risk it.

Also, I know about the creep issues with the evoIII. I was looking at the evoIII from sbr and they do offer port jobs on the inlet and outlet portions of the turbo. Would that do the job to take care of the creep? And also, doesn't an external wastegate pretty much take care of the creep? I'm probably mistaken but I could have sworn I read that in a number of posts.

P.s. daren_p, you are being a great help and I really appreciate it. Thank you

Ya sorry wasn't thinking, external will get rid of the boost creep issue