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2G To much meth hurting power?

Posted by eclipsyco, Oct 9, 2017

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  1. eclipsyco

    eclipsyco Proven Member

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    What's up guys it's been a while!
    So as the title suggest could to much methanol (actually 60-40 mix meth water) hurt performance? And causing spark blow out as well!
    So to give a background mod list on profile are up to date if you wish to know more about my set up but is a pretty common hx35 setup, running around 25psi on 93oct pump gas and a meth kit with a single nozzle #5 (375 ml/min).
    Right after I hit boost and meth starts to flow car jerks and feels like it on rev limiter while wideband still shows a healthy 11.5 -11.9 afr and no knock! so I'm assuming is a spark problem maybe spark blow-out.
    I didn't have this problem before the meth but I was running less boost around 18-20psi with nkg 7 plugs
    now I'm running nkg 8 plugs gapped at .26
    Should I go for non projected tip plugs like the B8EFS!
    Or what I'm doing wrong here? what are you guys running?
     

    Street Build 122  4

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM

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    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
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  2. bling5tatus

    bling5tatus Proven Member

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    Gap your plugs smaller. What ignition timing numbers are you seeing when this is happening?
     

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    1989 Dodge Colt GT
    manual · 4G63t Swapped

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  3. eclipsyco

    eclipsyco Proven Member

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    Thanks for the reply
    Ok I'll try .22 for the plugs.
    The timing I'm seeing is from 12* to 15* since is a wide rpm range where this happens (~4000 to ~7500) should I advance timing even more?
    Note: I use dsmlink to control meth injection and using secundary/aux maps as well so I haven't touch my main maps.
     

    Street Build 122  4

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
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    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
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  4. eclipsyco

    eclipsyco Proven Member

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    I'll try to grap a fresh log tomorrow if the weather permits.
     

    Street Build 122  4

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM

    Street Build 4K  5

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
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  5. bling5tatus

    bling5tatus Proven Member

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    There's no way to tell if you should advance the timing without knowing what affect your current timing is having on the plugs. I haven't ever tuned meth so I'm not familiar with any of the specifics in doing so. You might actually be running too much timing.... but don't blow your sh** up because of what I said.
     

    Street Build 2K  1

    1989 Dodge Colt GT
    manual · 4G63t Swapped

    Street Build 2K  1

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi
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  6. kmetiuk

    kmetiuk Proven Member

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    I'm running a holset he351ve on 93oct and im at 26-29 psi no meth and i have zero knock. 8.5 pistons and ngk 7's gapped to 28. My timing is more consevative tho off... the top of my head like 10-13 total at peak tq 4500-5000.

    Why you need meth at all? For more timing?
     

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  7. iceguru1114

    iceguru1114 Proven Member

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    upload_2017-10-10_12-38-44.png
    I'm sorry, I just had to do it. In all seriousness, though, you can have too much. It's possible that you're overall ratio is ok and you're just blowing out your spark, so maybe check the gap on the plug first.

    If that doesn't work I'd try decreasing the meth injection flowrate until you find the "sweet spot" where the car no longer stumbles. It's entirely possible that you're injecting too much and one of two things is happening: 1) in the region around your plug you have a non-homogeneous mixture that's nonconducive to combustion 2) you have a significant mass fraction in the cylinder of unvaporized meth mixture that's essentially ruining the combustion process. Either of those situations might still result in a bulk AFR reading still seeming reasonable, but actual combustion not being so great. The solution remains to lean out the meth injection flowrate until combustion stabilizes.

    Good luck :)
     

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  8. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

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    For a test, try running without the meth and take notes, then instead of your 60/40 mix, run 3-4 bottles of HEAT, which is ALL meth. If one works better than the other, well it was just a test. If neither make a change then it isn't the meth injection. I quit using my meth injection when I went to E85 and the car came to life. 21* of timing and no knock.
     

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  9. eclipsyco

    eclipsyco Proven Member

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    I'm running this set up on a 100% stock 7 bolt engine so I want to squeeze as much as possible power out of it! I'm not sure if it could handle over 25 psi without blowing considering I've been running this set up for over 2 years and this is a 130k miles old engine.
     

    Street Build 122  4

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM

    Street Build 4K  5

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
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  10. eclipsyco

    eclipsyco Proven Member

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    Thanks I'll try to gap the plugs as a mentioned earlier and try again if the issue persist I'll swap the nozzle with a #3 which is almost half the the flow rate of the one I have on right now, I'll post back results! thanks
     

    Street Build 122  4

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM

    Street Build 4K  5

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
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  11. eclipsyco

    eclipsyco Proven Member

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    I did actually! I have a kill switch for the meth and boost if a turn it off it goes back 18-20psi no meth stock timing tables and pulls hard and just fine no problems what so ever! I wish I had e85 around but for now I have to stick with my current set up!
     

    Street Build 122  4

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM

    Street Build 4K  5

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
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  12. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

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    So it must have an issue with knock so you are using Meth Inj to quench it? I was doing that also and I think it was hurting my power too, when I was on pump. I understand using it if you need the timing to get the car to run it's best, but does it show a lot of knock without it?
     

    Street Build 5K  29

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    14.74 @ 117.04 · 1G DSM

    1K  14

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM

    793  18

    1967 Chevrolet Camaro RS
    rwd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 1K  7

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    Street Build 6K  14  25

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.620 @ 108.460 · 1G DSM
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  13. eclipsyco

    eclipsyco Proven Member

    575
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    Joined Nov 19, 2011
    Somewhere in, Central America
    No, no knock at all without the meth, but also I'm on less boost without it! As I said above I'm on a stock 7bolt engine hopefully shooting for at least 400whp that's why I add the meth inj to help reach my goal without risking it too much!
     

    Street Build 122  4

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM

    Street Build 4K  5

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  14. eclipsyco

    eclipsyco Proven Member

    575
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    Joined Nov 19, 2011
    Somewhere in, Central America
    Hey guys, sorry for the very late update but life happens... anyway so I tried some of your suggestions, I gapped the plugs even smaller @ .24 while I was on that I found one of my cop insulators ripped so I had to order and replace, then I BLT it holded just fine up to 25psi.
    After doing some reading online I decided to advance the timing even more so now I''m around 16*
    It pulls much harder but still no perfect jerks @ 5k rpm but after 6k pulls fine again. So a partially fixed the issue. Heres the log and a video.
     

    Attached Files:

    Street Build 122  4

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM

    Street Build 4K  5

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...

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