timing ??

[style619s]

ok so i replaced my headgasket to Multi-layer one and got some ARP headstuds... i had to take my timing belt off and all that.. i lined all the notches up just like what this guide said PROPER TIMING. so when i start my car the whole motor shakes and sounds like its missing.. so my question is.. is my timing still off for little bit ??

 

[nuclearr]

Sounds like it. Did you at least do a full rotation by hand and then recheck the timing? Before you buttoned it up?

 

[style619s]

yeah i did about 3 rotations and it felt just fine ..but i didnt look to see if the notches were still lined up

 

[nuclearr]

yeah i did about 3 rotations and it felt just fine ..but i didnt look to see if the notches were still lined up

Like our friend Homer says "DOOHH"

You have to re check the marks or you might as well not turn it over by hand.

 

[style619s]

wow i feel really dumb now ..... im ganna try it tomorrow again and see what happens thanks man

ok so this morning before work i took the timing cover off and all that to check all the notches again and everything is lined up ... could it be just missing ??

 

[VelocitàPaola]

ok so this morning before work i took the timing cover off and all that to check all the notches again and everything is lined up ... could it be just missing ??

If you're sure that the timing is correct, then the problem may lay within the ignition system. Did you change the spark plugs or wires after you changed the headgasket?

 

[bullettdsm]

Silly question but you did check the crank notch as well, correct?

If so I would go to ignition components (as Paul mentioned. All plug wires on and fully egaged etc., plugs look OK etc.). When you pull the plugs, look to see if there is a plug that is too clean or too dirty; that may help you narrow it down.

Also, check all the connector plugs (that you may have unplugged or even those that may have been hit by your arm) to to see if some may be just slightly engaged (or possibly missed reconnecting). Then I would look at vac leaks etc.

MB

 

[style619s]

i actually put new msd coil and accel wires and e3s plugs before i did the head gasket but it was kinda missing but i figured thats because i just twisted the wires for the new connector for the coil.... also i did cracked the cam sensor when i was takin the cams out i think thats one of the problems too

 

[Jeff99GS]

I'm willing to bet your timing is still off 1 or 2 teeth. Have you lined up all 4 timing marks with a straight edge? The cam gears should have 4 timing marks. 2 on the inside and 2 on the outside edges of the gears. They have to be perfectly level with the head surface. I'm not 100% sure if the 420a has only 2 marks or 4.

A lot of people set the belt and timing marks fine. Then they set the tension on the belt and it will pull the cam gears apart. This makes the timing marks appear as if they are pointing upward slightly. That is why you need to make sure that they NOT ONLY line up, but that they are also LEVEL with the cylinder head surface.

I like to take 2 wrenches and put them on the cam gear nuts. Position them and ziptie them together so the gears cannot move apart. They have a tendency to want to rotate in opposite directions cause of the valve springs.

 

[ntdsmr87]

i had the same problem i had all the timing marks barely off and couldn't get the cam gears to stay in place while i was putting tension on the timing belt...it ran like crap and it looked like they were lined up but they werent so i jus bought this tool from jay racing it makes everything a whole lot easier...i dont knonif u have one but its way easier..heres a link Jay Racing Timing Belt Tools Kit [TBTS] - $50.00 : Jay Racing u dont absolutely need it but it makes it easier and make sure everything lines up perfect and u should b fine same exact thing happened to me and thats how i fixed it

 

[style619s]

I'm willing to bet your timing is still off 1 or 2 teeth. Have you lined up all 4 timing marks with a straight edge? The cam gears should have 4 timing marks. 2 on the inside and 2 on the outside edges of the gears. They have to be perfectly level with the head surface. I'm not 100% sure if the 420a has only 2 marks or 4.

A lot of people set the belt and timing marks fine. Then they set the tension on the belt and it will pull the cam gears apart. This makes the timing marks appear as if they are pointing upward slightly. That is why you need to make sure that they NOT ONLY line up, but that they are also LEVEL with the cylinder head surface.

I like to take 2 wrenches and put them on the cam gear nuts. Position them and ziptie them together so the gears cannot move apart. They have a tendency to want to rotate in opposite directions cause of the valve springs.

yes that how all my notches lined up

i had the same problem i had all the timing marks barely off and couldn't get the cam gears to stay in place while i was putting tension on the timing belt...it ran like crap and it looked like they were lined up but they werent so i jus bought this tool from jay racing it makes everything a whole lot easier...i dont knonif u have one but its way easier..heres a link Jay Racing Timing Belt Tools Kit [TBTS] - $50.00 : Jay Racing u dont absolutely need it but it makes it easier and make sure everything lines up perfect and u should b fine same exact thing happened to me and thats how i fixed it

isnt that for a 4g63 motor ??

so the first thing i did this morning is checked the notches again and its good like you guys said it could be some ignition problems... so i checked my spark plugs and they were gross looking all black and cover in gas... so its defiantly missing ..right ??

 

[Jeff99GS]

Check your vacuum with a gauge. It should be around 20-24 in hg at idle. If the Vac is low then the timing is likely still set wrong. OR you have a big vacuum leak.

 

[style619s]

ok i put everything back together and check the plugs and stuff and i was ganna start the car to check vaccum on my boost gauge it didnt even start i mean it would crank up and die second after ....

 

[Jeff99GS]

Did you make sure to plug in all the sensors and things? All the injectors, coil pack, CPS, MAP, IAC and so on.

 

[rstare]

A few things;
Are all your spark plugs black? Or, just one, or two of them?
Did you check all your ignition components, as Bullet and Paul mentioned?
Check to make sure you're getting spark at all.

I'm still willing to bet it's a timing issue. 99% of the time when re-timing this car, and a issue arises, it's due to the timing being off. It's just so easy to be so slightly off.

You said your CPS has a known problem, so I would definatley test that.

Your vacuum will be less then 20-24" hg, at idle, (that would be under deceleration), more like 16-20" hg.

 

[style619s]

i had a friend come over yesterday so he can look over everything and he said i set the timing right so we started lookin for all the vacuum leaks and we found one by missing link and since i took my intake off i didnt put it back right... so on one side bolts came off and there is a big gap thats suckin too much air ... due to that i cant check the vacuum at idle because it just dies

 

[Jeff99GS]

Your vacuum will be less then 20-24" hg, at idle, (that would be under deceleration), more like 16-20" hg.

REALLY? My old 420 idled at 20 in hg all the time! In my book it says normal is anywhere between 17 and 22 inhg at idle. Anything less and you have a small leak/ timing is wrong/ or you have different cams in the car.

i had a friend come over yesterday so he can look over everything and he said i set the timing right so we started lookin for all the vacuum leaks and we found one by missing link and since i took my intake off i didnt put it back right... so on one side bolts came off and there is a big gap thats suckin too much air ... due to that i cant check the vacuum at idle because it just dies

Definitely fix that leak. Sounds like you tightened one side of the manifold then the other. You need to install an intake manifold like you did the head. Start on the inside and work your way out. First HAND tighten all the bolts, then slowly tighten them all to the proper torque working OUT in a zigzag pattern. Otherwise you could cause the manifold to NOT seal up well from distorting its flatness.

 

[rstare]

REALLY? My old 420 idled at 20 in hg all the time! In my book it says normal is anywhere between 17 and 22 inhg at idle. Anything less and you have a small leak/ timing is wrong/ or you have different cams in the car.

Definitely fix that leak. Sounds like you tightened one side of the manifold then the other. You need to install an intake manifold like you did the head. Start on the inside and work your way out. First HAND tighten all the bolts, then slowly tighten them all to the proper torque working OUT in a zigzag pattern. Otherwise you could cause the manifold to NOT seal up well from distorting its flatness.

Yeah, my idle vacuum is about 16-17" hg Obviously it varies slightly everyday, but it's usually around there.
For a 4 cylinder engine in general, (not necissarly 420a specific), normally, 20"+ hg is only under decel.
I could see 20" hg at idle, I suppose. Seems a little high, but anything higher than that would seem off.
That's just in my opinion, I could be wrong. I'd like to hear some other people's input on that matter.

OP, I completely agree with Jeff. That big of leak is going to cause it to die. Fix the leak, like Jeff mentioned and report back.

 

[96TurboGS]

Spark advance plays a huge role at idle along with the atmospheric pressure and valve timing, and depending on running conditions it may vary from engine to engine. I see about 19-20hg at idle when I had the stock ecu running things (solid 20hg now, need to put my cams in) and 24hg max when decel.

 

[style619s]

ok i will i forgot to tell u guys that i also installed my portfuler place so thats what messed it up but tomorrow after work ill deff will check it out and fix it and let u guys know

 

[RoninEclipse2G]

Just a quick thought, you did a headgasket and obviously filled the coolant system, but did you burp the coolant? Usually an air bubble gets lodged behind the thermostat and it can cause the Coolant Temp Sensor to freak out and make the car run like crap on a stick. I've made this mistake myself a few times.

 

[style619s]

Just a quick thought, you did a headgasket and obviously filled the coolant system, but did you burp the coolant? Usually an air bubble gets lodged behind the thermostat and it can cause the Coolant Temp Sensor to freak out and make the car run like crap on a stick. I've made this mistake myself a few times.

crap i havent bleed the system yet.

 

[style619s]

ok so i re align my intake today and it runs must better.. it actually idles but still cant really tell if its running good or not because of my cam sensor moves around when the car is running ( i broke it when i was taking my head off )

 

[style619s]

ok so i tryed almost everything on the car and no luck... so today i went back to check the timing again and it was about tooth off ... so i adjusted everything again and ran into a problem.... the tensioner is bad... iguess i compressed it too many times it just gave up so is there a good place where i can get a new one ?? like over night shipping ??? because i went to every parts store and noone has it

 

[talon187]

did you go to carquest? they can get it