Timing tensioning help!!

[dsm-junkie]

Hey guys I'm in the process of doing my timing belt and I just can't seem to get it right!! First when I give tension using the special tool that goes into the pulley my cam gears will never line up straight! They always are off! Also when I put tension on the belt I will torque the pulley bolt then the grenade pin won't have anymore play and won't allow me to pull it out!! How can I get this to work???

Thats how off the cam gears are after I apply tension to the belt!

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[Deuce_three]

Hey guys I'm in the process of doing my timing belt and I just can't seem to get it right!! First when I give tension using the special tool that goes into the pulley my cam gears will never line up straight! They always are off! Also when I put tension on the belt I will torque the pulley bolt then the grenade pin won't have anymore play and won't allow me to pull it out!! How can I get this to work???

Thats how off the cam gears are after I apply tension to the belt!

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Make sure your camshaft dowel pins are at the top position. From the picture, it doesn't seem like your using the right timing marks, with that position, the cam timing will be 180* off.

 

[bryanwheat]

Keep the slack on the tensioner side. Clamp the belt to the cam sprockets, set them in time, turn the crank a half tooth counter clockwise past the mark, put the belt on the crank, turn the crank back clockwise to the mark and all the slack will be taken out. From there push the belt over the tensioner pulley and set the tension.

 

[dsm-junkie]

Make sure your camshaft dowel pins are at the top position. From the picture, it doesn't seem like your using the right timing marks, with that position, the cam timing will be 180* off.

Great! you were totally right!! I rotated the correct timing marks both to the inside and I managed to get it!!!!

Well guys that was an epic fail! I tried to turn the crank to see if everything was timed and I came into a rude stop! I took the head off and found 2 exhaust valves bent and my oem head gasket ruined from being torqued down once!! Cant even expressed how pissed I am at the moment! I'm done with this and just gonna take it somewhere and pay the extra $ to get it assembled!!...Screw the timing side!!!!!

 

[dsm-junkie]

Alright guys Im a little confused about the timing marks for the crankshaft! I see alot of diagrams that show the timing mark for the crankshaft to be on the left side of the crank shaft gear?? Then I see diagrams with the timing mark on the right side of the crank shaft gear?? Which on is it?? Heres a diagram showing the timing mark on the right side of the crank shaft gear!


This diagram shows the timing mark for the crank to be on the right side of the crank shaft! Is this the correct way to time the crankshaft or is there another timing mark on the left side of the crank shaft sprocket???

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Well guys I found the answer to my question through research!! So I'll post the answer so if anyone else stumbles across this question and is looking for a quick answer! Basically these 2 diagrams explain it all!! These are from a 6 bolt shortblock and I'm not sure if it is the same for the 7 bolt shortblocks!


This is for the 1990-1992 model shortblocks! You can see on the crank shaft plate that the timing marks are on the right side!!

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This diagram is for the 1993 model shortblocks! This diagram shows the timing mark to be on the left side!!!

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If someone has any diagrams on the 7-bolts this would serve as a useful place to display it for the constant amount of DSMer's that always need a little help!!!

 

[dsm-junkie]

Alright guys! I'm playing it really safe this time around! So now that I have the head and short block separated again I wanted to make sure that this is all correct! So I aligned the crank timing mark to see where the pistons sit when the timing mark is lined up and I wanted to know if this where the pistons are supposed to sit when the crank timing mark is lined up??? I thought that the pistons were supposed to be at TDC??? Thanks guys!!


Timing mark is lined up!

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Now this is where the pistons sit with the mark lined up!! So is the correct place for the pistons to sit when the timing mark is lined up???

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[bryanwheat]

No that is not the right place for the pistons to be with timing set. Number 1 and 4 should be at the top of the cylinders.

 

[dsm-junkie]

No that is not the right place for the pistons to be with timing set. Number 1 and 4 should be at the top of the cylinders.

I'm gonna throw on the OEM plate on real fast and see if its the plate that is not correct!!

 

[Prib9671]

I'm gonna throw on the OEM plate on real fast and see if its the plate that is not correct!!

I was just going to say this. I don't have any personal experience with 2g's, but that crank trigger plate could be meant for another engine. Did you purchase this aftermarket plate or was it already installed on the car?

 

[WES_393]

It possible you have that crank trigger plate on backwards. Pull it off, flip it 180, and reinstall.

Also, not sure if your aware of this or not, but that's an aftermarket crank sensor (most likely Kiggly). It's for use with the 6-bolt block since they don't come with a crank position sensor. So congrats, you have a 6-bolt engine. One with "strong" pistons as well.

 

[dsm-junkie]

It possible you have that crank trigger plate on backwards. Pull it off, flip it 180, and reinstall.

Also, not sure if your aware of this or not, but that's an aftermarket crank sensor (most likely Kiggly). It's for use with the 6-bolt block since they don't come with a crank position sensor. So congrats, you have a 6-bolt engine. One with "strong" pistons as well.

yes I purchased the kiggly crank trigger sensor! I flipped the plate and it lines up perfect at TDC but its almost like its supposed to not work! Because the plate rubs on one of the sensor screws! I do have the spacer installed as well! Just doesn't seem right!!

I was just going to say this. I don't have any personal experience with 2g's, but that crank trigger plate could be meant for another engine. Did you purchase this aftermarket plate or was it already installed on the car?

Yes I purchased a kiggly crank trigger sensor! Something is not right with it! The oem plate lined up perfectly! So it has to be something with the way it goes on!

 

[Prib9671]

yes I purchased the kiggly crank trigger sensor! I flipped the plate and it lines up perfect at TDC but its almost like its supposed to not work! Because the plate rubs on one of the sensor screws! I do have the spacer installed as well! Just doesn't seem right!!



Yes I purchased a kiggly crank trigger sensor! Something is not right with it! The oem plate lined up perfectly! So it has to be something with the way it goes on!

Kiggly is a very legit company, I can't really image that their product is wrong. Unless they make make a crank trigger plate for another engine and it got labeled wrong...I'm stumped. You said the plate is rubbing, does it rub flipped both ways? Just double checking so the oem and kiggly plates have the same tdc notch?

 

[WES_393]

yes I purchased the kiggly crank trigger sensor! I flipped the plate and it lines up perfect at TDC but its almost like its supposed to not work! Because the plate rubs on one of the sensor screws! I do have the spacer installed as well! Just doesn't seem right!!

If the pistons are at TDC with the trigger plate installed, but it rubs on the screws, then something isn't right with how the trigger sensor is mounted. I would think the sensor would contact the trigger plate long before it hits those little allen screws.

 

[Prib9671]

If the pistons are at TDC with the trigger plate installed, but it rubs on the screws, then something isn't right with how the trigger sensor is mounted. I would think the sensor would contact the trigger plate long before it hits those little allen screws.

Once again those #1 and #4 pistons are not at tdc with that notch lined up so something is wrong but its weird the oem plate reads the same. Unless you have it flipped 180* and its on the wrong side. Double check that.

 

[WES_393]

Once again those #1 and #4 pistons are not at tdc with that notch lined up so something is wrong but its weird the oem plate reads the same. Unless you have it flipped 180* and its on the wrong side. Double check that.

The OP said he flipped the trigger plate 180* and the pistons came to true TDC (not like pictured), but the trigger plate rubs the sensor bolts. Which leads me to think the sensor isn't mounted 100% correct or the spacer isn't the correct size.

I flipped the plate and it lines up perfect at TDC but its almost like its supposed to not work! Because the plate rubs on one of the sensor screws! I do have the spacer installed as well! Just doesn't seem right!!

 

[Prib9671]

The OP said he flipped the trigger plate 180* and the pistons came to true TDC (not like pictured), but the trigger plate rubs the sensor bolts. Which leads me to think the sensor isn't mounted 100% correct or the spacer isn't the correct size.

Sorry I missed that. Wes_393 is probably right about it being mounted incorrectly or the materials being wrong. Is there a diagram or details about how to install it?

 

[bryanwheat]

I would try swapping the washers/spacers around to see if you an make it not rub. You might even call kiggly and see if they can tell you exactly how it is supposed to be spaced. IT would suck to ruin the crank sensor.

 

[dsm-junkie]

Well this is the exact guide that I followed when installing the crank sensor! When I installed the plate the same way as in the thread the plate does not rub but the pistons line up wrong with the timing mark! Then I flip it around and the pistons line up fine but the plate rubs on one of the screws! So basically it seems to me like the plate was pressed backwards! I have contacted Kiggly and they are doing a great job helping me out!!!

Kiggly 6bolt crank trigger sensor installation (how-to) - DSM Forums: Mitsubishi Eclipse, Plymouth Laser, and Eagle Talon Forum: DSMtalk.com


Heres some pics of where it rubs and what the plate looks like!!

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[Prib9671]

Hopefully for the sake of your sanity they just punched that plate backwards. Let us know the outcome.

 

[WES_393]

If you noticed in that thread the crank trigger disk is backwards. It needs to go bulge side out. If that's how you've been doing it there are 3 things that could be wrong.

1. The bolt is too tall or the washer is too thick.

2. The crank spacer isn't thick enough and letting the disk rub

3. The raised edges on that trigger plate also look a bit odd to me.

 

[dsm-junkie]

If you noticed in that thread the crank trigger disk is backwards. It needs to go bulge side out. If that's how you've been doing it there are 3 things that could be wrong.

1. The bolt is too tall or the washer is too thick.

2. The crank spacer isn't thick enough and letting the disk rub

3. The raised edges on that trigger plate also look a bit odd to me.

It seems like the screws are sticking out too much! I have contacted Kevin at Kiggly Racing and they are doing a great job of helping me fix my problem! They are sending me a fresh sensor and taking the old one back to check it out!