Timing amount on pump gas!

[sp00ln]

The 2G ECU holds timing at 7 counts and retards 1 degree for every 3 following counts. So it would take 10 counts to pull one degree, 13 to pull 2 degrees, etc.

On a 1G, the ECU will continue to advance timing when seeing 0-3 knock counts, stop advancing at 4-7 knock counts, and retard timing > 7 knock counts

With this information, is it safe to say that if your car's timing is rising very slowly - maybe from 9* to 13* from 4k to 7k, you're knocking but not enough to pull timing?

 

[DSM90AWD]

With this information, is it safe to say that if your car's timing is rising very slowly - maybe from 9* to 13* from 4k to 7k, you're knocking but not enough to pull timing?

Kyle Tarry published the internal fuel maps for the 1Gs (I assume the 2Gs are similar). The Timing naturally rises (based on airflow) slowly as RPMs increase to a max value.

I've not tuned a 2G, but would think if you knew your airflow you could figure out the maps max timing value. If you dont' reach it, add a bit more fuel and see if max timing changes

 

[sp00ln]

Kyle Tarry published the internal fuel maps for the 1Gs (I assume the 2Gs are similar). The Timing naturally rises (based on airflow) slowly as RPMs increase to a max value.

I've not tuned a 2G, but would think if you knew your airflow you could figure out the maps max timing value. If you dont' reach it, add a bit more fuel and see if max timing changes

I just woke up, so I could have missed it, but where do you want me to look on that page?

 

[Ryan95tsiAWD]

With this information, is it safe to say that if your car's timing is rising very slowly - maybe from 9* to 13* from 4k to 7k, you're knocking but not enough to pull timing?

When you look at a dsmlink log, (2g) it seems any amount of knock starts pulling timing. I dont know about the actual "rate" that it pulls it at but every time knock is registered timing goes down or at best flat lines.

 

[DSM90AWD]

I just woke up, so I could have missed it, but where do you want me to look on that page?

Look under the "Extended trims" section. You can download all fuel, timing and octane maps for a 1G in Excel Format

 

[Mark90gst]

hey i sorry that the wording was bad, my fault, yes my car is in perfectly running and driving condition, i ben tuning with the aem wideband for a while now and all seems well

I post alot of the aem electronics forums alot and not to much on dsmtuners about aem ems,

the numbers on the fp3065 635-650 was awhp with NO nitrous all boost, boost was a 44 psi and then dropped to 29psi by redline, turbo couldnt hol boost, so the car is down and getting a full garret setup. (car was also aem ems powered.)

thanks for the help guys right now i run 21 psi 13 degrees of timing with about a 11:1 afr, with no knock but im learning everyday

 

[blueman803]

In that internal timing map, what are the units for the graph showing RPM to Airflow? It ranges from .5 to 4.18. Does anyone know?

 

[DSM90AWD]

In that internal timing map, what are the units for the graph showing RPM to Airflow? It ranges from .5 to 4.18. Does anyone know?

Grams of Air per Revolution, which is our ECUs measurement of load. All those MAPs are 3-dimensional with the g/rev as the "Z" axis.

Also note that the stock airflow limit of the 1G ECU is ~2.1 g/rev (roughly equivelant to 15psi boost on a 14B). So anything above that would not have separate calibration plot, instead using the highest one available. The graph Kyle published shows the "Extended Maps" feature he developed (and gives you the coding to replicate) which essentially doubles the airflow limits of each plot allowing you to individually tune larger load values.

This code is also available via DSMChips

 

[sbiggi]

thanks for the help guys right now i run 21 psi 13 degrees of timing with about a 11:1 afr, with no knock but im learning everyday

When you say you are running 13 degree, are you talking peak timing? or do you actually run 13 degrees stagnate from say 4500-7500?

-Seth

 

[blueman803]

How would you go about converting the load to a pressure signal?

 

[sbiggi]

How would you go about converting the load to a pressure signal?

13 * grams/rev - atmosphere pressure

 

[blueman803]

That's cool, can you explain the math behind that? I thought for sure temperature would be involved in there and it wouldn't be that simple.

 

[sbiggi]

That's cool, can you explain the math behind that? I thought for sure temperature would be involved in there and it wouldn't be that simple.

nope, I read it in a post the otherday.... supposidly it was taken from DSMLink forums.

 

[blueman803]

That means that map ranges from -8 psi to 40 psi. I think the math is off...

 

[sbiggi]

That means that map ranges from -8 psi to 40 psi. I think the math is off...

To get a accurate pressure from grams/rev, you would need to know VE at the least and do a bunch of math. If you change cams for example, you could have the same grams/rev but at a lower pressure because you improved VE.

 

[blueman803]

I thought that would be a problem. Basically I am looking for a stock timing map that can be used for a pressure versus rpm VE table. Thanks for the info.

 

[Mark90gst]

to get one of those maps download the aem firmware and check out how all the maps are