this just can't be

[rza808]

Ok just got back from dyno and boy was I disapointed.
240whp@6000

What am i doing wrong
Mods
bored .020 wissco pistions
eage rods
big 16G @17psi
top intercooler pipeing dejon
255 walbro fuel pump
ported O2
turbo back
ported ex manifold
MAFT
and 240whp 240.......wtf
I am running rich and the people in hawaii really dont know how to use the MAFT
but come on I wanted to be at 300 by now.
Everyone thinks AEM stand alone will get me there from here any sug.?
the more help the better.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

Yes. It sounds just like a boost leak. Do a boost leak test. This will solve a lot of problems and give you more power.

 

[tallywacker]

Do you have a AFPR for that 255lph pump? Those were the max I could tune to without an adjustable regulator.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

Do you have a AFPR for that 255lph pump? Those were the max I could tune to without an adjustable regulator.

Good point, that could explain why you are running stupid rich. If you have a 255lph without an Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator (AFPR) then your factory FPR is being over run.

 

[rza808]

no i dont have a afpr just the stock one

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

Well that is why you are running so rich and not making any power. Plus you are in need of a tune. At a minimun get an AFPR, Wideband o2, and tune with your GM MAF/MAF-T. I would say, problem solved! Good eye tallywacker!

 

[rza808]

ok just got back from shop with no boost leaks.
so now what? APR is that it? my nephew said when i get into it there is white smoke?
know what

take the k out of there

 

[staztrx250]

those numbers sound about right with a stock head i wouldn't expect much more than 280hp at that kind of boost... i would go with dsm link my buddy and i experimented with a few different kinds of management well ems is nice its really not needed until you wanna go for some high hp. he ran dsm link and then switched over to ems and there was only a difference of about 10 hp. If the shop you're working with can't figure out dsm link find another shop. i would HIGHLY advise against the gm MAF sensor because it doesn't have a intake temp. we tried it out once and without a temp reading it is impossible to tune(as soon as the motor got heat-soaked the Air-fuel was way off. just stick with the stock setup. Defiantly get AFPR tho that's almost always need with a fuel pump upgrade.

 

[sillyme]

don't expect to just add on some parts and expect power without some tuning. get dsmlink, you won't need a FPR. I ran without one on the 3 dsm i owned and all 3 hit over 300whp. my a/f ratio was spot on all the way to redline. I ran one with a small 16g (303whp) and the other two with evo3 (one at 350whp and the other 328whp). you could only make so much power with the amount of fuel and injected. when you see people claiming over 400whp on 550cc injectors, I call BS. show me the dyno sheet. yea yea, you can play with the fuel pressure a little and squeeze more out of some injectors but really how high can you raise it?

 

[rza808]

dsmlink dsmlink dsmlink i know i know i know well i dont have an eprom ecu and i dont have a lot of money so if anyone knows some one with a eprom ecu and dsmlink forsale lmk

 

[dsm-onster]

The AFPR will help with running rich at part throttle and idle where the stock FPR overruns. It doesnt overrun when there's enough fuel demand during mirdrange and higher with moderate boost levels like yours. So if you're running rich up top (BLACK smoke), you have another problem, either with the tune or with a boost leak.

You have enough to make well over 300whp with respect to tuning and fuel when you install the 650s. But being sarcastic about others sugestions after showing you don't know anything will get you nowhere fast. You still need an intercooler upgrade, especially cosidering you live in Hawaii (80-90 outside is over 100 in the shop). You're running around at 20psi with stock injectors a bigger turbo stock IC with NO logger. You didn't install 650s before you went to the shop in hopes of at least 300whp. I didn't even see a mention of any exhaust system upgrade after the o2 housing. And now, when you go through the hesitating, what does your non-existant logger say? . . .

I think you wern't monitoring knock, which is a silly thing not to do since you have a 1g car and it's so easy to find a logger that spits out a knock sum; and fittingly now, you have a blown head gasket. ===> white smoke and hesitation from tremendous timing retard due to high amounts of knock. You're running around with stock injectors and stock intercooler at 20psi with a turbo that flows more than stock. This is what will happen. You just learned something very important. Hoping for 300whp doesnt mean you will get it. The dsm platform has all the potential in the world, but you got to give it a fighting chance.

IF your shop can really tune AEM EMS, link will be a cynch to them. IF your shop knows how a piggy back fuel controller fools a computer (safc is big in the honda world) then MAFT is a cynch. They are making you out to be a fool with a dsm because you are proving that you don't know anything about them. Get your base tune with the bigger injectors using a proper logger and a FMIC or other decent intercooler upgrade, after you fix your blown headgasket from not running those three things in the first place at 20psi. And then go back to the dyno. They'll take you more seriously and read the maft instructions you hand them this time around. They arn't going to magically pull power out of your car when it is improperly setup.



. . . Ugh, I bet the honda tuner shop is laughing hysterically now if they've seen all this. A dyno tuner is not going to putz around with a customer that doesn't know their own stuff but still wants a good running setup the customers way. They'll take what you have and do what they can in the time on which you'll spend the money. You were running rich from the shop tune because you didn't even install an intercooler upgrade for a boost level TWICE over stock and a power goal 130+ whp over stock with pump gasoline. They did what they had to and that's all they could get from a half ass setup. If you "don't know dsms", learn them; and then go back to them with a good base tune and tell them how to tune the maft. They don't know all the options you ahve to tune with, but they know the concepts well enough since they tranfer across platforms. OR, you'll have to figure out how to make mo muny so they can do it their way. If you want to do it YOUR way, you have to KNOW how to do it your way. You're hoping just bolting on a bunch of parts and having a shop tweek it will make you mo powa. If they are a serious honda tuner shop, they know this better than us. But you're not giving them anything to work with but a bunch of boltons that don't do anything without having enough fuel and charge cooling to match it. They don't know that we need more than 450s and stock intercoolers to see that power. They run hondas that don't originally come with ICs so they upgrade to better than our stock ones in the first place; and due to the better brake specific fuel consumption of a typical honda motor, stock 450cc dsm injectors camn very well take a honda setup to 300+ whp safely.

With all the waste in dyno time and headgasket issues, you could have added that to what you would pay for a logger and what you did pay for the maft and gotten pretty close to the cost of link and their eprom conversion which comes with a great logger

 

[rza808]

i hate you
you stop telling the truth
so heres an update
i installed a front mount and tube o2
before a car cruz last night and wow magic
all hesatation and bogging GONE
car is now running unbeliveable great!!!!!!!
fast as hell.
i also did a boost leak test and found a leak in the throtle skrew and there is a leak from the injectors i think can that happen boost leak from the injectors?

 

[BoostFrenzy]

i also did a boost leak test and found a leak in the throtle skrew and there is a leak from the injectors i think can that happen boost leak from the injectors?

BISS screw is leaking. New ones are cheap but it would require you to reset it for your idle to be right.

Yes, injector seals are leaking. Another cheap fix.

 

[dsm-onster]

i hate you
you stop telling the truth
so heres an update
i installed a front mount and tube o2
before a car cruz last night and wow magic
all hesatation and bogging GONE
car is now running unbeliveable great!!!!!!!
fast as hell.
i also did a boost leak test and found a leak in the throtle skrew and there is a leak from the injectors i think can that happen boost leak from the injectors?

You were getting so much knock that timing pulled was causing the engine to sage in power. I hope you r headgasket is fine. Glad to see you're making some real progress now.

Now get that logger.

 

[rza808]

dyno'd today again 265whp 262 tq but this time @22psi

 

[Fabian]

NICE! Now that's some progress! See what happens when you follow instructions from some fellow dsm'ers!? When I was still running my 14b at 18psi and I installed the FMIC, I noticed a HUGE difference like you did. Could definitely feel that when I was in boost it was a much smoother power band. Good job man! Just a bit more tweaking and you could be hitting your 300hp!

 

[DearestNameless]

I need a FMIC but I went with hard piping. It fit my budget and gets me by for now, I hope.

Glad to see some progress. Just hope you got a logger before that dyno.

 

[TurboTerror99]

That was some good threading and I'm glad it worked out for you, OP. Keep us posted on those dyno results.

 

[tallywacker]

dyno'd today again 265whp 262 tq but this time @22psi

Do you have a logger yet? That extra HP you picked up is awesome until something melts.

 

[DaisyTuner]

and like stated before, logger is important, duh, but that adjustable fpr will also smooth this out and allow you to use your injectors to full potential!

i like reading this thread bc someone is actually listening and results are being posted! just what some of us other 16gers need!

 

[ian_maham]

Yeah man, if you did that with 450cc injectors I wouldn't expect you getting more than 240hp. Even with those mods... You should shell out some extra cash for a fmic(or big smic) and hard lower intercooler pipes.

 

[Badarse97]

im getting boost cut when i up the boost any higher
any quick fix for that

850cc's and Dsmlink!

 

[Backinajiffy12]

DSMLink and some 272 cams and you'll be over 300hp for sure! awsome work on this thread by the way!

 

[rza808]

i think just the link may put me to 300whp hopefully....
the guy at the shop that i'm going to i super cool the last three times on his dyno and wideband
he only charged 20 buck!!! i gave him 40 every time, cause i dont want to be a d***.
the thing is he really wants me to get the aem ems. i know its way to much for what i need but he is pretty straight forward about the differences with the 2. he also is so cool that he said he can get the new series 2 for 1150 shipped and as far as i can tell that is cheeper then any one anywhere.
he also is a very good tuner with the aem with tons of experience. what do you think?

also conseder this i have a non eprom ecu with your reply

also installed fuel gauge installed and with the stock fr im at 39 psi at idle. not to bad right?

 

[dsm-onster]

The ECMlink guys do an eprom conversion

$1150 is twice as much money as ecmlink; which is way overkill for your goal itself. I can't imagine who would be able to tune AEM EMS and not the maf translator or, even easier, ecmlink.

 

[92_6bolt_1290]

dsm link is pretty simple as far as tuning programs go and you don't need to rewire your whole harness like with a standalone. i'm sure if you got dsm link and needed help with it there are tons of people here to help you make at least 300whp