TELL ME why an 18G is "junk"

[terminaltsi]

from what i read and hear, 18G's are not worth anything. any real reasons why? i don't want opinions, i want reasons.compared to a 16g or 20g....

 

[LandoAWD]

This is not advanced.

The reason most people would call it "junk" is that you may as well go 16g or 20g, and skip the "middle step". Look at www.dsmtimes.org and see how many 18g turbos are on the list.

Disclaimer: I have not ever, nor plan to, run an 18g. This was simply my assessment of what I see posted here.

 

[KeltonDSMer]

Wow, who ever told you that is prety damn ignorant. The 18g, IMO, is a better turbo than the big 16g in every single way. It is much more effiecient than the big16g, it flows more, has similar spool, and can be used with an array of turbines and housings to accomidate different people's needs. Here in CO at altitude, extreme backpressure is the main limiting factor in any turbo's capabilities. Many up here use big turbines and housings to aleviate this, and the 18g with TDO6 turbine stuff is a really good compramise between spool and top end performance.

Do you think an FP red maxes out at 450WHP at 6000ft for no reason? Dave Landy ran 30psi, (dropped to 27psi at the end of the pull), on a FULLY built motor and that power level was the outcome. This was after switching to an 8cm housing which alone increaced airflow by 10%.

All I'm trying to show is that all turbos have their place and talking shit abut an uncommon turbo choice is rediculous. Go do some ####ing reasearch, get some real numbers, then come back.

 

[Lunch_Box]

I don't think that people are calling the turbo junk but money wise buying a 18G to most people doesn't make sense because a 20G isn't mush more and has gone into the 10's.

 

[KeltonDSMer]

True, there aren't many people running this turbo on the DSM times list, but this is becasue most of these times are at sea level, where the 18g probably isn't a very good choice. I just get pissed off when people dog on anything because someone out there is going to shy away from this choice for no particular reason, even if it is a great setup for that situation.

Sorry about getting all pissy; I don't even usually come to this forum and I have no excuse to say stuff like that. I just realize living at high altitude, everything about these cars gets a little messed up.

 

[LandoAWD]

Originally posted by KeltonDSMer
True, there aren't many people running this turbo on the DSM times list, but this is becasue most of these times are at sea level, where the 18g probably isn't a very good choice. I just get pissed off when people dog on anything because someone out there is going to shy away from this choice for no particular reason, even if it is a great setup for that situation.

Sorry about getting all pissy; I don't even usually come to this forum and I have no excuse to say stuff like that. I just realize living at high altitude, everything about these cars gets a little messed up.

What's really funny, is that nobody "dogged" the 18g in this thread.

Calm down.

 

[boostedinaz]

When i was looking to go bigger I didnt want a 16G so I looked at other options. What I found is that for a few extra bucks I could have a 20G and all the power I need to run the times I want. The 18G hasnt been as proven as other and that doesn help it any, but is hasnt been proven because the 20G can be had for a bit more, at least IMO.

Michael

 

[Groomz]

I've never owned or driven an 18G, but here's what I know:

The Forced Performance 18G is just the Evo III turbine housing and turbine wheel with the standard MHI CHRA, and of course the compressor cover and 18G wheel. Its rated by FP at 400hp. I assume its crank horsepower. Its estimated to flow around 590-600cfm's at a 2.0 pressur ratio, so it does flow a good amount. Its also only 74$ more than the Evo III ( from FP ). Here's a compressor map I found, but its an estimation only:

 

[terminaltsi]

so basically an 18g flows more than a big 16 and less than a 20...well, that was the obvious answer. so the reasoning that people don't run them is that they don't cost much less than a 20G? why not look at it the other way; that is, it barely costs more than a 16G so why aren't all the big 16 peopl e using it instead?

also, what of the benefits of it looking like a stock turbo or at least a 16G? just for the sake of a little "cheating"....

 

[VRMAN]

The main, and basically only reason is that for the price the 20G is just as attainable.

I have an 18G and don't plan on running anything else. Great turbo IMO.

 

[midnght]

Not that I go looking for the 18g, but everytime I have seen the price it was way over the price I paid for my TDO6H 20G.

If you ask me where I have seen it I won't be able to answer you. I bought my turbo over 7 months ago.

 

[terminaltsi]

SO THE ONLY real advantage of the 18g is that it flows more than a big 16 and looks stock. if that's important, i suppose it's one hell of a good turbo right? i don't cost too much into account because if one looks around, tehy are all within a reasonable price range; if you can afford any one of them , then they are all affordable.

i guess that answers my question tehn, the 18G is not really junk like people say, it's just that a 20g is more popular due to the small difference in price.

 

[Grimis]

reading this and it sounds like what im getting chewed for also, well i wanted to get the FP-28, forceperformance's Killer T28 i guess is what it is, but i was told to get the B16g, so im like ok what ever. Some people call turbos junk some people dont, it all depends on what "YOU" are going to use it for, im still a noob on these, but thats the way i think it should be done, now if you out there to brag about a turbo you have, get a 50/60 trim.. just my .2$

 

[Groomz]

Originally posted by Grimis
reading this and it sounds like what im getting chewed for also, well i wanted to get the FP-28, forceperformance's Killer T28 i guess is what it is, but i was told to get the B16g, so im like ok what ever. Some people call turbos junk some people dont, it all depends on what "YOU" are going to use it for, im still a noob on these, but thats the way i think it should be done, now if you out there to brag about a turbo you have, get a 50/60 trim.. just my .2$

The guys here who tend to dog those turbo's ( FP28s, T28s, 18G's, etc... ) either don't have them or are just spreading what they heard. You know how everyone said go 16G because its better? Maybe they need to see this:

http://www.wincom.net/trog/wastegate_actuator.html

A ported 18G will flow a bit over 600cfm's at around a 2.0 pressure ratio, which is pretty good. FP lets em go for around 850$ ported, which is pretty good. 20G's go for about the same. If an Evo III 16G kicks so much ass, then the 18G can do even more. The fact that no one runs them would mean all those 50 trim and 16G guys wouldn't know much about your setup if you told them you had the 18G. Of course 600cfm's is shit for flow, I'm going to get me a small
16G!

 

[Grimis]

so what you posted about the FP28 its a good turbo then from what i read. Still a noob to this, the read outs look good, if im reading them right any ways thanks for the info. PM me if you got any good setups for a 95 awd

 

[KeltonDSMer]

Yes, I do agree that the 20G is an even better turbo than the 18G: It is just as efficient, has tolerable spool characteristics, and doesn't cost too much for the turbo itself. But to say that is is barely more expensive is absolutely absurd considering that an external W/G set up is basically required to make it run correctly. I don't think that dropping nine bills on the turbo, and another four for an external W/G setup is worth the money at all.......you might as well get a BB garrett hybrid.

Does anyone even use any kind of 20g variation with and internal gate?

 

[hostile]

Remember the 18g from forced performance comes with an internal gate. Most 20g's for less than 1000 don't have a gate.

Anyone who says the FP 18g is a junk turbo should get their head checked.

Even the ev0III 16g is a nice turbo... there are guys who have gone really fast on it.

I would think it would be ncie turbo for 1g guys.

 

[VRMAN]

If 375HP, full spool by 3300 and stock appearance sounds like your kind of turbo sandwich then the 18G is for you.



Supporting mods needed of course.....

 

[kpt4321]

The 18g is a good wheel, is the simple answer.

The more complex answer is that it sits between two very popular wheels, and isn't really needed. Not many people want to go bigger than a 16g, but smaller than a 20g. That's not a huge jump anyway, and to spend a lot of money for 40-60 horsepower, tops, seems like a waste.

If you're buying a turbo to upgrade from stock, the 18g is something to consider.

However, another thing to consider is the EvoIII 16g is closer to an 18g then it is to a 16g. That makes it a very tempting option.

 

[terminaltsi]

Originally posted by KeltonDSMer
Yes, I do agree that the 20G is an even better turbo than the 18G: It is just as efficient, has tolerable spool characteristics, and doesn't cost too much for the turbo itself. But to say that is is barely more expensive is absolutely absurd considering that an external W/G set up is basically required to make it run correctly. I don't think that dropping nine bills on the turbo, and another four for an external W/G setup is worth the money at all.......you might as well get a BB garrett hybrid.

Does anyone even use any kind of 20g variation with and internal gate?

good point...when you consider the cost of an external gate, the 20g then becomes quite a bit more expensive. i have seen a few people iwth internal gates on 20g's but not many. right, if i'm going with an exsternal gated 20g, might as well go for the bb.

so basically for more performance than an evo 3 16g and stock appearance, go for the 18G for a *few* bucks more. sounds kinda good to me.

yeah, idon't understand why so many people have downed the 18g as a POS, it's pretty much all i've read on several forums.
just thought i'd try to get some real info here.

 

[VRMAN]

Yeah better info on tuners then dsmtalk.

Glad you got a better view of it here.

 

[Grimis]

ok, this is some good stuff, 18g will over proform the EvoIII turbo? if im reading right, it does do better? just want to get my info right, because before the Shoot Out this year, i want to have my stuff on, and i have down ether the B16G or the Evo, and now im looking at the 18G

 

[VRMAN]

Evo16G is like 570cfm and a ported 18G is right at 600cfm.

Evo is much more affodable and more common as well though....


Want to be unique or follow a tested path? They are similar with the 18G having about 10-15% more potential.

 

[midnght]

Originally posted by KeltonDSMer
Does anyone even use any kind of 20g variation with and internal gate?

I do!

And I get full boost at 3.7k and hold all the way to redline. NO creep and it hits like a mack truck. Especially now that I have a quality clutch/flywheel in the car instead of the stock slipping POS.

 

[Mo-Bo0st]

boostedinaz...Has a 20g with an internal gate, but has yet to put it on his car.

Back in the day when I was looking at all these turbos, i was told that the 18g used a less efficient wheel than the 16g. Thats all I know, and for that matter it could be false information. I would run an internal gated 20g before I would buy an 18g.

I was with boostedinaz this weekend when he raced a 95gsx equiped with an 18g/660's/Front mount/DSMlink/Open DP. This guy was barely pulling on us and boosted was running RnR O2eliminator 3" and 15lbs on the stock 14b. Those are his only modifications so far.

Needless to say I'm yet to be impressed by this turbo.