tdo5 (stock) upgrade?

[benny23]

Hi all, im looking at upgrading my stock td05. ive been told to just upgrade the comp wheel with a machined td05 housing? any suggestions? its in a van soo the gears are really short, i can sit on 110kms and its on about 3500rpm and pretty much on boost.
i believe upgrading the comp wheel to a tdo6 wheel will only create boost lag which isnt good because the gears are really short being a van.

any help will be appreciated

 

[Cruciatus111]

Td05 and td06 refers to the turbine housing which is the exhaust side of the turbo. What are your goals for the car? and also what car is this specifically for? First you should have some goals in mind then choose your turbo based on them. If you want a daily driver that isn't too laggy with some nice top end power then a 16g td05 turbo would be good for you.

 

[benny23]

Td05 and td06 refers to the turbine housing which is the exhaust side of the turbo. What are your goals for the car? and also what car is this specifically for? First you should have some goals in mind then choose your turbo based on them. If you want a daily driver that isn't too laggy with some nice top end power then a 16g td05 turbo would be good for you.

engine is in an l300 van, its not a daily driver but yes its street legal. basically chasing more power. a 16g tdo5 is what i have now?

 

[2fast2evo]

You could always go bigger if you want to chase more power and stay within the TD05 housing family. An 18G or a 20G would be a nice kick, but as was said you have to factor in lagginess (especially in a heavier vehicle). What engine is in this? That might help people help you with turbo selection.

 

[benny23]

You could always go bigger if you want to chase more power and stay within the TD05 housing family. An 18G or a 20G would be a nice kick, but as was said you have to factor in lagginess (especially in a heavier vehicle). What engine is in this? That might help people help you with turbo selection.

im pretty sure the vehicle would be lighter, its a mitdi l300 van, engine being a 4g63t dohc vr4.

 

[Dsmkauai]

I would just source a evo3 16g.

 

[benny23]

I would just source a evo3 16g.

I would just source a evo3 16g.

will that bolt straight on?

 

[Maes]

Yes

 

[GST with PSI]

Hi all, im looking at upgrading my stock td05. ive been told to just upgrade the comp wheel with a machined td05 housing? any suggestions? its in a van soo the gears are really short, i can sit on 110kms and its on about 3500rpm and pretty much on boost.
i believe upgrading the comp wheel to a tdo6 wheel will only create boost lag which isnt good because the gears are really short being a van.

any help will be appreciated

I understand what you're trying to say, you're just not stating your question right, which is confusing everyone.

What you are referring to is building a bastard 20G. You take whatever 20G compressor wheel you want and couple it to the TD05 turbine. For this to work, you'll need to get a TD05 compressor cover cover that's machined out to accept the 20G compressor wheel to keep the turbo in stock form. You can also swap in a typical down-firing 20G compressor cover, which would mean you'll to have to reconfigure your intercooler piping.

I've said this multiple times in other threads; this "upgrade" will not get you true 20G results. For starters, the TD05 turbine doesn't have the balls to really push even the cast 20G compressor wheel. Hence, using a billet wheel is almost pointless, since you reap few if any of the billet wheel's benefits.

Since you'll have the turbo apart, you might as well rebuild it. I've heard it said that the 20G compressor wheel can put larger thrust loads on the turbine shaft. As a solution to this, there are multiple rebuild kits out there with "upgraded" thrust components which are larger than the factory components. For these upgraded parts to work, you need machine work done to the 16G bearing housing. Also, some of the aftermarket thrust plates have larger oiling holes, which may change how/where you feed your turbo from. In summary, make sure you know what rebuild kit you're getting, how to assemble the parts in the kit, and how those parts may affect the turbo's operation.

You can do the entire conversion for around $200 bucks. Here's more info on the one I built, specs are in my profile: http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/gstwithpsis-galant-vr4-1837-2000.482807/page-3#post-153534325

 

[Dsmkauai]

Yes it would, just make sure to get a real mhi one. Watch out for fakes! 14b flows around 30-2lb/min a evo3 flows 44lb/min!

 

[GST with PSI]

Yes it would, just make sure to get a real mhi one. Watch out for fakes! 14b flows around 35lb/min a evo3 flows 47lb/min!

There's no way in hell you'll get 47lb/min out of a Evo3 16G.


http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/evo-3-compressor-map.156068/#post-1304213

 

[Dsmkauai]

That's what i had writin down they are rated for sorry . The link doesn't show anything but comp maps and cfm's. From that it shows 43-45lb/min. Anyway I could care less. Thx it should be 44lb/min not 47

 

[GST with PSI]

The link doesn't show anything but comp maps and cfm's.

Right, because those don't mean anything...

You'll be lucky to get 42lbs/min on a 16G. I've personally never logged anything over 40lbs/min on my E316G. I'll have some real world airflow numbers on the bastard 20G soon.

 

[activeracer2]

If a 16G really hit over 40lbs/min then there would be WAY more people running over 400hp with the B16G. The average power output is around 350-370WHP with a good tune and bigger boost.

For the record, the general tuning rule is for every 1lb/min airflow you should net 10 CRANK hp. So at 40lbs/min the 350whp average makes sense, where 44-47lbs/min doesn't since only a few have broken 400whp on a B16G.


To the OG poster: I would get a bastard 20G built and run it with a 18psi internal wastegate. Bolt on completely and the TDO5H turbine wheel will support that airflow just fine while still have great spool. Slower than the stock 14b, but still very nice response and a bit more power for the top end. Use a standard UNPORTED 7cm turbine housing with a 2.5in downpipe with a 3in catback.

Of course you'll need bigger injectors, a better fuel pump, and somewhat of a tune to make it run good......

 

[GST with PSI]

I don't feel like I have enough data to state accurate airflow numbers on my bastard 20G setup yet. That being said, I don't expect my (or any) bastard 20G will ever flow 47lb/min. The TD05 turbine is just too much of a handicap. At the end of the day, if I get 1 or 2 more lbs/min over what I saw on my 16G the upgrade was worth the minimal amount of time, effort, and money I have in it.

I can absolutely say I see almost no difference in spool up from what I saw on my E316G, so that's a plus.

 

[Maddashimports-Matt]

I'd just go with a fp68hta. 51lbs/min and 16g spool. It's a real work of art.

 

[Dsmkauai]

Wow you guys need to research alittle more !! Straight from justin "but the Evo III 16G is a revision of the old 38 lb/min Big 16G wheel that has been proven-capable of 42 lb/min in stock form which is already beyond the map and beyond expectations for the turbo." If the old wheel can make over 40lb/min and the evo3 is a revision hmm . I have also seen plenty of guys over 400hp on the evo3 16g (not big16g). So doesn't that require 40lb/min or more? With my small 16g (rated at 35lb/min) I was able to max it's flow and consistently run 37lb/min at 20psi.

 

[GST with PSI]

Wow you guys need to research alittle more !! Straight from justin "but the Evo III 16G is a revision of the old 38 lb/min Big 16G wheel that has been proven-capable of 42 lb/min in stock form which is already beyond the map and beyond expectations for the turbo."

Is that not what I said in my post after correcting you the first time ? First you said 47, then 44, and now 42. As I said, you'll be lucky to see 42lb/min on a E316G turbo. I've personally never logged anything greater than about 40lb/min @ ~20psi on mine, which I have logs to verify.

Get your facts straight, and then post. Otherwise you're just spreading misinformation.

 

[GST with PSI]

I can confidently say a few more pounds of boost on my car would not net me 2-4 more lbs/min of airflow. I'd venture to say that probably hold true for most people. You also need to consider the more the air is heated, the less efficient the turbocharger is. When you're operating the turbo off the compressor map outside of its optimal efficiency range, that effect is even more pronounced. Your intercooler better be up to the task of cooling that air charge, or the only thing you'll get is the hair dryer effect.

Additionally, running a 16G in a 10cm housing on a TD05 turbine is completely pointless. All you're doing is hurting spool. Even an 8cm housing would be larger than you need on that turbine. On 99% of setups I've ever seen, any flow you might gain up top would be outweighed by the extra lag down low.

For a TON of good information related to this thread: http://www.stealth316.com/2-3s-compflowmaps.htm

 

[2fast2evo]

If the OP is already using a 16G, moving up to a big 16G is not really the best way to "chase power". The idea of the bastard 20G is a good one, trying to track down a TD05 20G would be a better bet on a budget. I have an HTA Green which is truly lovely but not as cheap as a used MHI.

Also agreed with what was said that you want to aim for the peak efficiency area of your turbo. A 16G huffing more than 1.5 bar is just blowing hot air and your risk of detonation goes way up. Focus more on flowing air than pressurizing the heck out of it. There are a raft of compressor maps here that depict the relationship between pressure and airflow: http://www.not2fast.com/turbo/maps/all.html

 

[GST with PSI]

Anyone really trying to push a tdo5 is using a 10cm it's also t3.

Actually, pretty much everyone pushing the TD05 turbine is using a 7cm housing (14b, 16g, whatever). That's because like I said, there are no real gains to be made in a giant housing on a TD05 turbine.

To reinforce my point, do you see any of these guys running a 10cm T3 housing?
http://www.dsmtuners.com/dsm-profiles/my-92-eagle-talon-awd-race-car.11411/
http://www.dsmtuners.com/dsm-profiles/phil1320s-talon-tsi-awd.1057/
http://www.dsmtuners.com/dsm-profiles/arfwds-14b-monster.2876/
http://www.dsmtuners.com/dsm-profiles/sbstars-talon-tsi-awd.1966/
http://www.dsmtuners.com/dsm-profiles/1990-mitsubishi-eclipse-gsx.11344/

 

[benny23]

thanks for all the input, after all the comments and chatting to a few people, im upgrading to a garret gtx3071 with a new manifold, dump pipe, intake etc, 1000 injectors, bigger fuel pump and a good tune, possibly even convert to e85 also. the van is rwd and 5speed manual

 

[activeracer2]

I pushed my S16G to 38lbs also, it was more like 37 though since the airflow correction wasn't spot on. Made 320whp out of it...
That said I'm running 8.5:1 compression with 264 kelford cams and 22* timing on E85. That makes a difference.

Now I'm not disagreeing that the B16G can put out 42lbs/min, but it's rare to see it done. It takes a careful parts selection and tuning to achieve that. When you discuss MAXING out a turbo, it doesn't just happen. So many factors affect the flow ratings. Some do, but like I said, just because 10-20 can do it, doesn't mean everyone will. There are thousands of 16Gs out there that can't get close to maxing them out. Real life and theory are 2 different things. I recommend the 20g because it will flow the same as a maxed 16G will at half it's power. You'll make the same power on a 20G with less boost and less tuning, therefor a much easier to work with turbo.

 

[BoostedBeaver]

This thread has been cleaned up. The only post that should follow will include information pertaining to the OP’s original question. Any additional posts pertaining to anything otherwise may result in a suspension from the site.