Stock Internals; Boost?

[Auladan]

Okay. I've recently got my Talon running again with a 35-40k mile JDM motor. It's stock, save for a K&N filter. My plans are to eventually build it up to a mid-12 second daily driver.

On my mod list, my priorities are a boost guage and an MBC. Now, my brother and I argue alot about cars (he drives a 92 firebird formula, 305), and he believes that if I turn my boost (after I get a guage and MBC) up to 15 that my motor won't be able to handle it for long, especially as a daily driver.

Now, I'm constantly telling him that the 4g63-T is an overpowered motor, and can easily handle that; especially a low-mileage motor like mine.

So I'd like to ask what you all think is a "safe" boost to run on stock internals. What do you run? How long has it lasted? That kind of thing.

I'm getting tired of this argument and would like to put an end to it.

Thanks.

Also, just becuase he doesn't believe me, could someone post a link or something showing that the stock boost on these cars (at least on 1G's) is around 10 psi?

 

[boostedinaz]

Alot fo guys are running mid 20's on stock short blocks. My old motor lasted for even on 17 lbs. You could run more but I would say get a new headgasket and some studs and boost away.

Let him be content wih his TPI formula and then when you are done go to the track and show him some DSM dominance.

Michael

 

[psychlow]

The stock 6-bolt shortblock is rumored (and has been proven) to handle 500BHP fairly reliably if tuned well.

15PSI is not an issue as long as you watch for knock - you'll start to exceed the capabilities of your fuel pump. If anything kills the engine, it won't be the power level, it'll be knock.

 

[Ravenshorn]

Ok first to boostedinaz, all I (auladan's brother) wanted to know was what the reliablity of a stock 4g63-t motor is running daily with 15 psi boost. I know for a fact though that the "DSM dominance" would not show the 92 formula up on the track. It will once he does rouphly a lot of bolt on's at about 1k worth in parts. The formula is capable of 14.63 stock. I have links to forums that discuss this if you want to read them. Second with not too many mods on the firebirds side he can be doing high 12's. In conclusion i just want to make sure that you guys don't start claiming "dominance" over other cars when its just not there...at least not without a lot of modding.

I like the 1G Talon's, I think they are some of the best and definatly fastest 4cyl turboed cars but don't dismiss so easily performance tested V8 Firebirds.

 

[boostedinaz]

Ok first to boostedinaz, all the guys brother wanted to know was what the reliablity of a stock 4g63-t motor is running daily with 15 psi boost. I know for a fact though that the "DSM dominance" would not show the 92 formula up on the track. It will once he does rouphly a lot of bolt on's at about 1k worth in parts. The formula is capable of 14.63 stock. I have links to forums that discuss this if you want to read them. Second with not too many mods on the firebirds side he can be doing high 12's. In conclusion i just want to make sure that you guys don't start claiming "dominance" over other cars when its just not there...at least not without a lot of modding.

I like the 1G Talon's, I think they are some of the best and definatly fastest 4cyl turboed cars but don't dismiss so easily performance tested V8 Firebirds.

I am a regular on Camaroz28.com and am not some import ricer kid. I grew up on older muscle cars and most of them were F bodies so dont tell me what I know when you dont know me. I have been around the automotive block. There is this thing that some people have it is called a sense of humor, you should look into getting one and learning to use it. I am fully aware of the potential of some year F bodies and also the lack of potential for certain years, so calm down and take out your manpon, we are all having fun.

Michael

 

[Ravenshorn]

Whoa there turbo calm your jets. I wasn't attacking you. When you posted it looked very much like you were just dismissing Firebirds. So replying telling you not to dismiss them so lightly. If you weren't doing that then that's fine. I just replied in defence of my car. I"m glad you own a camero...good for you...but I DO have a sence of humor and just allways peeved because Auladan up there has been consistantly saying how much faster his car will be when I know its not the case...If i do not mod my car and he does up untill he gets his 12 second times he wants then sure he will be...but not if I continue to mod at the same rate..and typically for a lot less money too. SOOOOO, I was not attacking you, I do have a sence of humor and don't get your panties in a tiff I was just defending an all too attacked vehicle.

 

[psychlow]

It will once he does rouphly a lot of bolt on's at about 1k worth in parts. The formula is capable of 14.63 stock. I have links to forums that discuss this if you want to read them. Second with not too many mods on the firebirds side he can be doing high 12's.

1G AWD turbo DSMs can be in the high 12's with a boost controller, exhaust, a boost gauge, fuel pump and a logger. That's about $950 if you do it right.

All you need to run mid 14's is a manual boost controller and a gauge.

 

[IHeartTurbo]

Auladan up there has been consistantly saying how much faster his car will be when I know its not the case...If i do not mod my car and he does up untill he gets his 12 second times he wants then sure he will be...but not if I continue to mod at the same rate..and typically for a lot less money too.

There was some guy on here that got his DSM into the 12s for under 1grand I believe it was, including the cost of the car. Can you do that?

Also, I'm gonna admit I don't know much about F bodies, but is a 92 a 3rd gen or 4th gen? I've heard those 3rd gens are slow...

 

[psychlow]

92 is the last year of the third generation F-bodies.

The only reason they were slow was emission reasons becuase of the good ol' 80's. They can be made fast without much work - they are similar to DSMs in the aspect that they put out much less power than the engine was capable of making.

 

[92awddsm]

Keep in mind that the 1g awd had more power stock than the stock 305 formula. I run 12's with full leather, ac and 20 psi on 93 octane, daily driven. Stock bottom end(rebuilt) no balance shafts, and arp head studs.

 

[TSIfreek]

Yea guys run 400HP and run mid and low 11s at the track with the stock bottom end. The 4G63 6 bolt motor you have can take lots of abuse and love to rev as long as you have upgraded valve spings and TI retainers. If you have stock springs keep it under 7500. I had my stock motor/head with the stock 14b with 103k on the clock and running 15psi on the street no problem all I had was an air filter and 255 fuel pump thats it.
With a stock car/motor with stock side mount I would just put a 255 fuel pump on it, air filter and if money is there a full 3'' exhaust with test pipe and turn the boost up to 16 PSI and shift it at 6500- 7k . You should be able to blow the doors off that firebird by second gear no problem!
You can turn the boost up higher but will need bigger injectors, SAFC, 2g mass and front mount intercooler. Have fun

 

[69_luv]

You asked what is the PSI you would recommend for stock internals. Somewhere between 15-17psi. But this is basis on so many things. Do you have the supporting mods, have u put the 1k+ into supporting mods....

Bottom line....bottom dollar....15psi....unless..

If you have to ask this question then....read the faqs

there is stages you have to go through...period....if you skip steps you can pay the price....


Sorry to the F-body guy but I hose "some" of you guys every day, for a fraction of the gas pump price...

 

[InferiorWang]

if I remember correctly, with stock internals, you can go to 15 psi on the stock pump, 16-17 on the injectors, and I've seen people around 20 without anything else done.

 

[Auladan]

Thanks guys.

I knew pretty much all of that already, but I wanted to confirm it with y'all 'cause he won't believe it if it comes outta my mouth.

As of now it's a stock Talon, save for an Air Filter, but soon as I land a job that's going to change.

 

[Ravenshorn]

Ok cool that's about all I wanted to know...but when you say you hose those guys daily...that's a very general claim to make...My f-body is tons faster than most around here and its still mainly stock..you have to look at the weight, which version of which generation and which engine is in it..if you beat camaros and firebirds do you know if they are running the stock L03, LB9, or L98 Blocks, and then which transmission..then what mods so on so forth....Just because many were made slow, don't drop us all into the same catagory. Many of your DSM's here are fast..but how many others just on the street are? I could just as easly say I hose DSM's daily, and other imports..and it would be true..but it would be true against ricers...not true Tuners. Thanks again.

 

[Nerfherder]

Whoa there turbo calm your jets. I wasn't attacking you. When you posted it looked very much like you were just dismissing Firebirds. So replying telling you not to dismiss them so lightly. If you weren't doing that then that's fine. I just replied in defence of my car. I"m glad you own a camero...good for you...but I DO have a sence of humor and just allways peeved because Auladan up there has been consistantly saying how much faster his car will be when I know its not the case...If i do not mod my car and he does up untill he gets his 12 second times he wants then sure he will be...but not if I continue to mod at the same rate..and typically for a lot less money too. SOOOOO, I was not attacking you, I do have a sence of humor and don't get your panties in a tiff I was just defending an all too attacked vehicle.

Got mullet?






Sorry, I had to do it.

 

[nukefission]

The more appropriate question would have been: what boost is safe with little to no supporting mods? 14-15 psi is the limit without a bigger fuel pump or some sort of fuel control, but it also depends on the condition of the motor. If there is a lot of carbon buildup in the combustion chamber, it'll be tough to get away with even 15 psi and not have a case of the knocks.

As for how much boost the stock internals can handle, it all depends on supporting mods. I've pushed 30+ psi through my stock 120k block without any problems.

 

[Ravenshorn]

Thanks and yes that was a good way of putting it. Its also the only thing I wanted to know...I did not want this to turn into a "bash the firebirds cause we think they suck" post. I just wanted to know realistic numbers that my bros car can run safely because I think then when you push engines like that they will break much sooner than normal (obvious in my opinion) and that just because some people have done things doesn't mean your car, your setup can handle it safely. Bottom line I think some of the things he says he can do with his car are just plain unrealistic. He claims he can because other have done it (and we aren't talking about the PSI thing anymore). Anyway, that's about it, thanks guys.