Starter Problem *UPDATED

[StockTSI]

Hey everybody I'm new here, I did a search and couldn't find this exact problem. I also checked vfaq and this is one few unsanswered questions. So I go to start my car, I hear the relay switch click, but then absolutely nothing. My battery is at 12.4 volts which I think is a little low, but a jump doesn't help. It had happened before and previously all that I did was leave it alone for a couple of hours and it would start, but no longer.

I have a compustar remote start/turbo timer, but the remote start just goes into the relay switch so I don't think that is the problem. Any advice would help, I have a general idea of how to replace the starter but I don't know any exact details. Haynes was pretty useless, the pictures were from a different type of car.......

But I know that I have to remove the battery, but are there any other suggestions before I tear apart the poor car. I've checked all fuses also, and batter posts. Voltage reads perfectly from positive terminal to engine block.

 

[StockTSI]

So I took the old starter to autozone and they tested it, it was bad. Put a new one in. Now the starter just spins freely. Did I miss anything. I can here it spinning where before it did nothing when I attempted to start it.... Does this mean my fly wheel is screwed, or should I hold out hope. Anything else I can try. I don't know of any good way to check the teeth on the fly wheel, any advice on that.

Thanks in advance.

 

[GTM]

So I took the old starter to autozone and they tested it, it was bad. Put a new one in. Now the starter just spins freely. Did I miss anything. I can here it spinning where before it did nothing when I attempted to start it.... Does this mean my fly wheel is screwed, or should I hold out hope. Anything else I can try. I don't know of any good way to check the teeth on the fly wheel, any advice on that.

Thanks in advance.

Did you get the solenoid wire hooked to the correct terminal. Someone reported that some of these have 2 solenoid terminals and they got the wrong one.

If you suspect it's the ring gear then try rotating the engine maybe 30 degrees by hand. This will hopefully present undamaged teeth that the pinion gear will index. Once engaged it will usually continue to crank until started. The reason for getting a worn spot usually comes from having one cylr which has higher compression than all the others. When you turn the key off the engine will rotate past the weak cylrs and then stop at one which has the highest compression.

The preferred choice is to replace the ring gear if they are even made, it requires cutting the old one off, heating the new one to several hundred degrees and dropping it on the flywhee where it cools and shrinks. If you can't get a ring gear then a new/rebuilt/used flywheel replacement. If it's just a couple teeth with slight damaged you can grind a new ramp on them with a die grinder.

But I'm not convinced you have installed the starter correctly so I would loosen until you can wiggle it a bit, then while holding it firmly in place tighten the bolts starting with the top first then the bottom and back to the top. For the starter to spin the solenoid must have pulled most of the way in to establish the very large contacts which then power the motor.

Try the wire first, then rotating the crank, then reposition, if you get a start this may be your answer. The next time it fails you need to pull the starter and inspect the ring gear teeth.

Let us know what you find.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[StockTSI]

SOOOO much anger at whoever had put in the old starter. I'm also pretty mad at myself for not catching their mistake. If you look at the first picture you can see that the bolts are a little different... The upper bolt had been replaced by one that was not long enough and it was not properly securing the starter in position, which then caused the starter to fall out of alignment, grind off the top of its own teeth, as well and #### up the top of the starter. I can only imagine what the fly wheel looks like....It is in properly now, 10x1.25 bolt only cost 2.48 at an auto parts store. But the starter slips and I'm sure both the BRAND new starter and 15,000 mile old fly wheel will need to be replaced pretty soon. All for 2.48 worth of bolt, but it is kind of my fault for not realizing the problem.

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[GTM]

SOOOO much anger at whoever had put in the old starter. I'm also pretty mad at myself for not catching their mistake. If you look at the first picture you can see that the bolts are a little different... The upper bolt had been replaced by one that was not long enough and it was not properly securing the starter in position, which then caused the starter to fall out of alignment, grind off the top of its own teeth, as well and #### up the top of the starter. I can only imagine what the fly wheel looks like....It is in properly now, 10x1.25 bolt only cost 2.48 at an auto parts store. But the starter slips and I'm sure both the BRAND new starter and 15,000 mile old fly wheel will need to be replaced pretty soon. All for 2.48 worth of bolt, but it is kind of my fault for not realizing the problem.

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Strange business, your ".img" files didn't even display on my computer but show in my reply.

Shade tree mechanics are a professional's worst nightmare for you never know what they have done until you start taking things apart. Hopefully you can recover from the bolt fiasco. The starter pinion gear can be reshaped with a file but don't buy cheap files for all that will happen is they get dull before the will cut anything. You need to have some idea what the gear profile looked like before. It may be more practical to remove the pinion gear from the starter, a die grinder will work with the right tools but the file may be faster and more accurate.

If it's a replacable ring gear and a replacement isn't available and the damage is local to one area you may still have options. If the flywheel is not indexed then rotate the bolt holes to a new location so the engine is less likely to always stop at that location. If the flywheel is indexed and can only go one way and the ring gear can be replaced then you can use a torch to heat the ring gear, slip it off and reposition so it is less likely to stop at that location.

All of this may not be piratical or cost effective, so anyone reading this must weigh the options but when dealing in limited production autos where parts don't exist for every part was custom made you must find solutions. Ain't nuttin like finding that a VW starter and ring gear are exact diameters and teeth interchange...

Cheers,
GTM

 

[StockTSI]

Hey GTM thanks for all the advice. I got un-lazy and got out the little mirror on a stick thing and checked the fly wheel teeth... They were all fine, no damage whatsoever. So then I'm thinking about the problem you mentioned with cars having different starters. And I happen to have a 92 so in June sometime they switched from the 6 bolt engine to the 7 bolt. The starter that I had bought was from AUTOZONE, so I go to the mitsu dealership and ask them if there is a difference. While Autozone didn't think so they are distinctly different. I asked the dealership how much a new one was, almost fainted then went to a friends house cause he happened to have a spare. I snapped this picture. The teeth on the 7 bolt are much more recessed and simply don't work with the 6 bolt.

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Sorry if the pic doesn't work. I'm switching from Image Station to photobucket because they kind of suck. But it's free I'm sure if I paid it would work.

 

[GTM]

Hey GTM thanks for all the advice. I got un-lazy and got out the little mirror on a stick thing and checked the fly wheel teeth... They were all fine, no damage whatsoever.
...
The teeth on the 7 bolt are much more recessed and simply don't work with the 6 bolt.

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Ha! Bingo! Sometimes you can disconnect the large lead from the solenoid output and yet have the solenoid work. This will let you see just how much travel you have without actually cranking the engine. The reason I say sometimes is the solenoid can be grounded through the brushes and thus won't pull in, you can't ground the output post because it's carrying full load. However if you run it through a stop lamp or headlight bulb it will shunt enough through the solenoid to make it work.

So my question is: was the 1/4" adapter plate you made based on the auto transmission starter and now throws a monkey into you flexplate to flywheel swap??

Usually the pinion gear is pushed up against a washer(s) on the shaft, you may have to play with washer thickness to get it just right. You may also find the pinion gear throw lever needs to have a different pivot point to effect more or less throw.
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Your picture didn't show, said I didn't have permission...

Let us know what happens and when it's running.

Cheers,
GTM