ST Front Sway Bar Adjustable?

[stutz43078]

Hey guys,

I know that most say that an upgraded front sway bar on the 1g's is worthless, but the curiousity is killing me. I know the rear ST sway bar is adjustable, my question is simple, is ST's front sway bar also adjustable? Thanks in advance guys.

Chris

 

[jtmcinder]

Are you talking about the add-on bar ... the one where you keep the OE bar and add a second one? If so, then it's not adjustable.

 

[stutz43078]

Are you talking about the add-on bar ... the one where you keep the OE bar and add a second one? If so, then it's not adjustable.

I don't believe so. I thought it replaced the stock one up front. I know the rear replaces the stock one, unless it's fwd in which it adds one, but I know it is adjustable for understeer and oversteer. Just trying to get more info on the front one. Thanks.

 

[jtmcinder]

Yes, the rear ST bar for a 1G replaces the original, but I'd swear that the front is a piggyback bar.

 

[jtmcinder]

Ah, now that this is a technical thread, instead of a newbie thread, I can say that it's a non-adjustable, piggy-back bar. I can also say that more roll resistance is often quite useful, even when it is at the wrong end of the car.

 

[stutz43078]

Ah, now that this is a technical thread, instead of a newbie thread, I can say that it's a non-adjustable, piggy-back bar. I can also say that more roll resistance is often quite useful, even when it is at the wrong end of the car.

Well I'm looking for less roll but more oversteer. I know I can adjust the ST rear sway bar to full oversteer, but I'm starting to doubt I could do the same with the front. I rather lean towards more oversteer with more roll rather than less roll with more understeer. We will see what happens though, if no one else speaks up I may have to be a guinea pig haha. Thanks again man.

 

[jtmcinder]

My main suggestion is that you stop saying things like "adjust the rear bar to full oversteer," since that kind of generalized and short-cut-taking talking will come back to bite you. When you set the rear bar to full stiff, yes, on most cars, this will cause the handling to shift towards oversteer. But not always. One of the best examples of a case which isn't "normal" is the front bar on a 2G. Assuming soft springs, a 2G will have less understeer with a heavier front bar, all else being equal, because the reduction in body roll keeps the front tires happy in camber and this is more important than moving the weight-transfer to the rear. Of course, what is making the fronts happy is the reduction in body roll, which could also be achieved with a heavier rear bar, so I'm not suggesting that everyone with an understeering 2G run out and get a massive front bar to go with a skinny rear; I'm just pointing out that you should probably walk through the steps (in your mind and posts), rather than jump to the conclusion. Otherwise, you might lose track of what caused the conclusion.

With all that said, get the biggest bars you can and/or increase your spring-rates a lot. In general, you do the latter first. You should try to get the car close to where you want it using springs and then fine-tune with adjustable bars. Huge sway-bars on a softly-sprung car will have other problems and is not the way to go in the long term.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

Yes, the rear ST bar for a 1G replaces the original, but I'd swear that the front is a piggyback bar.

On a 1g FWD there is no original rear sway bar.

 

[jtmcinder]

Yeah, I should have said either replaces (AWD) or final appears as (FWD). I was more focused on trying to remember where I saw that the ST front bar for 1Gs is a piggy-back, instead of a replacement. Can you verify this?

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

Yeah, I should have said either replaces (AWD) or final appears as (FWD). I was more focused on trying to remember where I saw that the ST front bar for 1Gs is a piggy-back, instead of a replacement. Can you verify this?

http://stsuspensions-store.com/products/sway-bar/front-antiswaybar/st-front-anti-swaybar-40.html
ST FRONT ANTI-SWAYBAR
•2-door Hatchback
•3/4" front bar diameter
•B - Suspension Techniques front sway bar is used in conjuction with original equipment front anti sway bar. (for simplified installation)

Suspension Techniques 50200 - Suspension Techniques Front Sway Bars - Overview - SummitRacing.com
Front anti-sway bar is used in conjunction with the OE front anti-sway bar.

 

[jtmcinder]

Oh ... search! Yeah. That's a good idea.

At least my memory was correct for once.

 

[stutz43078]

My main suggestion is that you stop saying things like "adjust the rear bar to full oversteer," since that kind of generalized and short-cut-taking talking will come back to bite you. When you set the rear bar to full stiff, yes, on most cars, this will cause the handling to shift towards oversteer. But not always. One of the best examples of a case which isn't "normal" is the front bar on a 2G. Assuming soft springs, a 2G will have less understeer with a heavier front bar, all else being equal, because the reduction in body roll keeps the front tires happy in camber and this is more important than moving the weight-transfer to the rear. Of course, what is making the fronts happy is the reduction in body roll, which could also be achieved with a heavier rear bar, so I'm not suggesting that everyone with an understeering 2G run out and get a massive front bar to go with a skinny rear; I'm just pointing out that you should probably walk through the steps (in your mind and posts), rather than jump to the conclusion. Otherwise, you might lose track of what caused the conclusion.

With all that said, get the biggest bars you can and/or increase your spring-rates a lot. In general, you do the latter first. You should try to get the car close to where you want it using springs and then fine-tune with adjustable bars. Huge sway-bars on a softly-sprung car will have other problems and is not the way to go in the long term.

Ok, now that I know the front one isn't adjustable, let me fill you in on my thoughts. I live in an area populated by many poorly maintained coutry roads. They aren't full of pot holes but they are full of dips and bumps. So the current plan for my suspension is the stock springs with agx struts. On top of this I want to do other things that will benefit my handling without going to a different strut/spring combo or coilovers. I say this because for these kind of roads, I need stiff struts, soft springs, and that's going to be my best bet. I know our cars are understeer happy so I'm basically looking for mods to fix that. The ST rear sway bar has been proven by many to do this. I want to know if adding the front sway bar is going to back track me towards understeer, add to oversteer, or just help with roll without effecting either. Thanks for all the info this far, but really waiting on someone that has one installed to chime in. Thanks fellas.

 

[jtmcinder]

Nope. In low-grip situations, such as crappy roads, you don't get much body roll from lateral acceleration, because you can't actually make the car turn very hard using the conventional approach, so you don't really want the front bar, after all. Yes, it reduces body roll, but that isn't your problem. Think rally-car set-up, not tarmac. And rally cars use more spring and less bar. You want just the rear bar, get the nose around, and floor it, tee hee.

 

[Colt4G63 also]

A friend of mine is selling a set of front and rear ST bars for a FWD 1g. They are sitting on the floor of my shop right now. He's not a member on here and I'm not allowed to post the stuff on his behalf, but I can probably legally tell you to look on Niagara Falls NY area Craigslist for his partout.

Anyway, back to the topic. I have installed them, and they are both piggyback swaybars that work in tandem with the original front and rear sway bars. (people will argue with me on this, but I don't care what they say, there is a factory rear sway bar incorporated into the rear swing arm/ axle beam thingy.)
The rear ST is adjustable, the front is not, and the front honestly isn't designed as well as the rear (the way it attaches to the control arms).
We never tried it with just the rear, as I installed both at the same time. For what it's worth, he said they were awesome, and was very happy. Take that with a grain of salt, because frankly I don't think he could drive his way out of a wet paper bag. We wen't drag racing once, and he managed to run an 18+ second quarter mile, followed by a stall at the line which resulted in a 21+ second quarter mile.

Ps. If you want his sway bars, I'm sure he'll sell them really cheap (if you can find him), but please don't PM me 20 times trying to get them for $20 shipped to Timbuctu, because I won't reply; It's not my problem, and I'm not getting involved.

 

[jtmcinder]

(people will argue with me on this, but I don't care what they say, there is a factory rear sway bar incorporated into the rear swing arm/ axle beam thingy.)

Won't argue with you about this at all. It might go by a different name and not have the same 2:1 ratio of effects on roll vs single-wheel bump, but it has the same overall effect, so call it whatever you like and I'll be cool with it.

 

[Colt4G63 also]

I hope I'm not breaking any rules by placing this link here, but I figure if it helps someone it's my good deed for the day. Mostly because it wasn't the easiest to find.
90-94 Eclipse performance parts

 

[stutz43078]

A friend of mine is selling a set of front and rear ST bars for a FWD 1g. They are sitting on the floor of my shop right now. He's not a member on here and I'm not allowed to post the stuff on his behalf, but I can probably legally tell you to look on Niagara Falls NY area Craigslist for his partout.

Anyway, back to the topic. I have installed them, and they are both piggyback swaybars that work in tandem with the original front and rear sway bars. (people will argue with me on this, but I don't care what they say, there is a factory rear sway bar incorporated into the rear swing arm/ axle beam thingy.)
The rear ST is adjustable, the front is not, and the front honestly isn't designed as well as the rear (the way it attaches to the control arms).
We never tried it with just the rear, as I installed both at the same time. For what it's worth, he said they were awesome, and was very happy. Take that with a grain of salt, because frankly I don't think he could drive his way out of a wet paper bag. We wen't drag racing once, and he managed to run an 18+ second quarter mile, followed by a stall at the line which resulted in a 21+ second quarter mile.

Ps. If you want his sway bars, I'm sure he'll sell them really cheap (if you can find him), but please don't PM me 20 times trying to get them for $20 shipped to Timbuctu, because I won't reply; It's not my problem, and I'm not getting involved.

Really close to what I want to hear haha just not quite there. Need someone that has tried both, and has it installed on their own 1g. If I had the money right now I would be all over it, but I'm waiting on tax income to do my whole suspension setup. Right now I'm just researching the options and benefits. Thanks for your input though.

 

[Colt4G63 also]

If I had the money I would be looking for an AWD rear one. I'm not prepared to spend the $200 on one right now though. I did drive his car once right after I did the upgrades, and it was nice. It would have been nice to see what just installing the rear would do. Before he purchased them he said that he read on ST's site, that if you were only going to do one, it should be the rear. FWIW

I didn't much like how you have to drill a hole in the front control arms to insert an old school (bolt and bushing type) sway bar link. It tends to bind, and make a little noise sometimes.

You also lose some ground clearance.

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