Spearco 2-221 and buchcar 2 1/2 exhaust ?s

[bad71camaro]

I was wondering what you guys think off the spearco 2-221 fmic, it just looks so small to me but let me no what you guys think of it. Also I have buschar 2.5in turbo back exhaust and I was wondering if this was to restrictive and I need to do to 3in. And one more ? are 550 injectors to small for a 20g with all suporting mods and webrace grind cams. I would really appreciate any help that you guys could give me mike

 

[TSIfreek]

Go 3" exhaust to get the most performace out of that 20g and go with with 720 injectors. You will max the 550s out with that 20g

 

[bad71camaro]

what about the spearco 2-221

 

[TSIfreek]

Sparco cores are nice. Is it made for the car its going on??

 

[Cesar]

I think that the 2-221 is an awesome core...
Since you have a 20g, a relatively large turbo, you will be flowing alot of air without heating the intake temperatures too much.
The 2-221 can flow a lot of air, but since it is a top-bottom flowing core that isn't very tall, it does not cool the air as much as a GOOD side to side core. Besides those cast endtaks are shaped very well and the spearco core, well it's a spearco.
It's been my favorite core for a while, I just have no money.
My philosophy is you don't need a crazy intercooler to really drop intake temperatures if you don't heat the air up too much in the first place.

 

[Diplomat]

I don't have any info on the Spearco. As for your choice of exhaust, that really depends on your performance goals (power-wise). What are you hoping to put down? How much boost will you be pushing with the 20G? External or internal wastegate? If you're worried about sounding like a ricer, just stay away from straight through mufflers (canisters).

As for fuel, you could probably get away with 550's and 93 octane if we're talking mediocre boost levels on that turbo. I'd personally go with 650's. I prefer to have more than I need as opposed to just enough or slightly inadequate.

Do some research on your web cams. I'm not one to talk bad about a product I haven't used but I've seen some negative reviews right here on DSMtuners.

By the way, I'm assuming you're not looking to put this stuff on your Camaro. Would you do us a favor and put your DSM in your profile? You'll find that more people will respond when they can simply "click" and get your vehicle info.

 

[bad71camaro]

Sadly enough it isnt my dsm yet im am trading my camaro for it this weekend hopefully. Soon as i get the car I plan on dropping the car off at extreme motorsports to be tuned considering its only like an hr away from my house. I planed to get a tune for race gas and street driving im just gona let the guys there work there magic and get the most out of the car. I might buy tthe new injectors before i get it tuned but it will prob be awhile befor i can go to full 3in exhaust. Ill list a mod list below let me no what you think the car is good for in the quarter and what kind of dyno #s it can put down to the ground. Before and after the injectors and exhaust.

1G Rods and 2G Pistons Knife-edged crank ARP Head Studs Stage 2 Ported Head by Michigan Instruments HKS Valvesprings Webcams 452/228 Race Grind 1mm Oversized SS Valves Removed Balance Shafts Turbo/Exhaust: Buschur Racing 20G Manual Boost Controller HKS External Wastegate TRE-ported 2G Exhaust Manifold TRE-ported 2G O2 Housing Buschur 2.5" Turbo-back w/ test pipe Transmission: Rebuilt by TRE 1500 miles ago Modified double synchro 2nd gearset TRE-spec Evo III shift forks w/ bronze wear pads TRE steel shift rails ACT 2600 clutch Viscous LSD Fuel Supply/Management: RC Engineering 550cc Injectors Road Race Engineering Fuel Pump Super AFC 2 Intake: Injen Intake w/ 2g Mass Spearco 2-221 FMIC Buschur 2.25"-2.5" IC piping Extrude-honed Intake Manifold Wheels/Tires/Suspension/Brakes: (less than 2k miles) Buschur Racing Front!

 

[PieTSI]

Change the Rc 550's to another brand. I would go with Denso 650's if you can get them. Also if your going to be runnign a lot of power i would go with something other than S-AFC.

 

[Stoner]

I agree with the injectors, they need to be bigger. I have a big 16g and my 550's are too small. 20g will easily need more. I would wait on the exhaust as long as it is a full 2.5" and get some injectors and Extrmeme should be able to get some good numbers out of your setup.

 

[TSIfreek]

mid to high 11s should not be a problem.

 

[bad71camaro]

Yeah when I got it tuned with the new injectors I was hoping to run in the high 11s on pump and somewhere in the lower 11s on race gas with the boost close to 30. What kind of dyno #s do you guys think this thing will put down to the ground

 

[pboglio]

I would go bigger. At 515 cfm it looks like 64% efficient, 645 cfm looks like low 50%. Thats a real small FMIC though, only 108 in sq. I hate to disagree with other people, but a larger turbo actually kicks out more BTU's, just from the increase in massflow rate. A big turbo and a small turbo operating at their limit are both going to be kicking around the same efficiency. Whats worse is the bigger turbo is also going to run at a higher psi, again more heat due to the ideal gas law. You ever notice how guys running big turbo's that drag race also run intercoolers as big as their radiators, theres a reason for that. I'd go with a core at least in the 24"x10" size. I've seen on Buschur's site a whole intercooler assembly for $400, bar and plate design too.

 

[bad71camaro]

I would go bigger. At 515 cfm it looks like 64% efficient, 645 cfm looks like low 50%. Thats a real small FMIC though, only 108 in sq. I hate to disagree with other people, but a larger turbo actually kicks out more BTU's, just from the increase in massflow rate. A big turbo and a small turbo operating at their limit are both going to be kicking around the same efficiency. Whats worse is the bigger turbo is also going to run at a higher psi, again more heat due to the ideal gas law. You ever notice how guys running big turbo's that drag race also run intercoolers as big as their radiators, theres a reason for that. I'd go with a core at least in the 24"x10" size. I've seen on Buschur's site a whole intercooler assembly for $400, bar and plate design too.

Can you give me some examples of cores that I could buy that would fit without having to change my intercooler pipes that are a resnoable price. I would appreciate it

 

[pianoman]

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/...cflowcharts.htm

that link has some flow info on the 2-221 (2-115). thanks to pboglio for that one.

 

[pboglio]

Can you give me some examples of cores that I could buy that would fit without having to change my intercooler pipes that are a resnoable price. I would appreciate it

O.k. this is a loaded question, but I'll list a link that shows 2-3 cores that would fit nicely and still give high efficiencies. Core #2-120 is my favorite for guys worried about bumper cutting. Core #2-216 is the all out drag race core for guys not worried about bumper cutting. Don't bother with any cores smaller than these, it wouldn't be an upgrade over the #2-221. I'm not saying buy from these guys but I like the way their website lays out the different I.C. choices. Buy from whomever is the cheapest and you feel like supporting. My favorite is Road Race Engineering but thats me, I like their non-drag race mentality. I think your pipe routing is going to be different than a side-side core. You've gotta call around a few vendors and discuss with them. My own I.C. setup was supposed to be plug and play but I did quite a bit of extra pipe cutting and welding to get it to actually fit. Anyhoo, good luck.

http://www.diamondstarmotorsport.com/fmicparts.shtml

 

[sweet97]

RRE treats the 221 like it's the best they have to offer and regard it highly? Gene you hadtoo much turkey!! the 221 has 108 square inch face not 108 inches square. ithas 16% more total area than the small dejon but like 57% more cooling area, apparently tighter cooling tubes.
I have deceided to run whatever IC will allow the 50 trim to run 20-22 PSI on pump. I hope the 221 allows it simply because I have it. My bumoer is off and I am prepared to cut. i will try the 221 first. I emailed DSS to see their take on the 221 as all they sayis it is not as efficient as some others. RRE has a chart on the 221 but I cannot read it. Mark

 

[Street Surgeon]

Ever consider one of these? I am also looking for a nice fmic to go with and the local shop around here uses and can't say enough good things about the 221, but I just want something with a bit larger core though. Anyways I thought I'd look into one of these. Also pretty nice that they'll put 2, 2.5, or 3" inlet/outlets on it, whatever you like.

 

[Tort9320g]

I've gone 11.75 @ 119.95 on 2.5" press-bent with a 20g, 550s, and 264/272s. With the full 3", the best I've run is 11.05 @ 123.6 (still on 550s ).

 

[bad71camaro]

did the 3in make all of that difference or was it the tunning and better driving? Also what kind of dyno numbers did you put down ?

 

[zross1]

did the 3in make all of that difference or was it the tunning and better driving? Also what kind of dyno numbers did you put down ?

A 2.5 inch vs 3 inch isn't going to make that big of a difference on your set up. I'm not speaking for the person you directed this question too, but in order to run good times what it comes down to is good tuning and driving given you have the proper set up (which you do). You mentioned taking your car to have someone tune it for you. IMO you need to learn how to tune yourself before having someone do it for you. It will make life a lot easier, because you will be constatly tuning and retuning these cars you can't afford to take it to someone else to do it for you every time. One night you might have it dialed in perfectly, then the next the temp raises or drops 20 degrees and your retuning it again. There are a lot of factors to tuning a turbo car. Plus it's fun to do once you get the hang of it. Do some searches and then ask some questions about tuning. Right now you only have a safc that has limited tuning abilities used via pocketlogger. But there is still room to tune with it. Good luck

 

[Tort9320g]

My first time out with the 3". the car ran 11.50 @ 121.5. This was similar weather and tuning to the 11.7 @ 119 pass on 2.5". Since then, it's been alot of driving to get to the 11.0 (hence the .7 sec gain with only 3.6 mph).

 

[bad71camaro]

My first time out with the 3". the car ran 11.50 @ 121.5. This was similar weather and tuning to the 11.7 @ 119 pass on 2.5". Since then, it's been alot of driving to get to the 11.0 (hence the .7 sec gain with only 3.6 mph).

That is pretty impressive, I bet it just killing you to be so close to the tens. Well you just prove to me with the right tunning and driving my car can be a low 11sec car thanks for the hope . What kind of boost were you running when you went 11.0s? I dont no how similar your 20g is to my buschar racing but I trying to figure out what kind of boost I should be running on race gas. Have you had the car dyno'd if so what kind of numbers did you put down?

 

[pianoman]

What did you run on pump gas? What was your injector duty cycle? seems like everyone is using 650's+ and 550's have fallen by the wayside.

 

[sweet97]

You ran the 11's with the 2-221? Impressive if so! Mark

 

[bad71camaro]

You ran the 11's with the 2-221? Impressive if so! Mark

I have read about several dsm's running in the 10s with the 2-221