Slipped Snapped Broken Timing Belt T-Belt [merged]

[aznerd11]

a few weeks ago, my car started idling poorly so i never started it since. i checked for vacuum leaks, but i then found it to be a problem with the timing belt. When i lifted the top cover, i noticed a rip on the belt and the belt off a few teeth on the exhaust sprocket. So now im in the process of changing it but now im stuck. Please see pictures.

rip
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v387/bboygenius016/tbelt011.jpg

off teeth on exhaust
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v387/bboygenius016/tbelt010.jpg

after 1/4 turn of the crank, the teeth lined up again, which made it skip some more
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v387/bboygenius016/tbelt012.jpg

how do i get the timing to TDC with the teeth off?- i started turning it softly but then i felt a restriction and it moved itself counterclockwise.
also how do i get the crank sprocket off without the tool?
This is on a 90 laser turbo

 

[Defiant]

balance belt got tore up and wedged into timing belt and timing was way off. again replaced belts. now i get a whine from starter and belts turn, a little backfire but wont catch. still off on timing, bent valves?

Yes, bent valves.

 

[Grasser]

ok so i replaced the head, arp studs, cometic head gasket, new gaskets all around. put back together and had oil pump out of phase with balance shaft. so did it again and runs smooth but horrible knock ticking (hard to explain). i think its maybe blown rod or balance shaft bearing blown? please let me know if any suggestions to check or do i have to rip it all apart again?

 

[brodiedehass]

Fellow DSMers,

Last month I acquired a 1992 Galant VR4. I bought the car from Texas and had it shipped to Ohio. The car has 84k miles, perfect running condition, and timing belt replaced 4k miles ago.

The seller met the shipper and the shipper drove the car onto the trailer. When the shipper had to make a stop he had to unload it. The car wouldn't start, he rolled the car off the trailer and tried to bump start it in reverse. So I get a call about the car being inoperable and get charged an extra $100.

When the car got to Ohio we met at Wal-Mart. I immediately checked the timing belt before I hauled it home. The belt was very taught as it should be so I figured it must be a fuel or spark issue. I check out a few things and wasn't able to figure it out there. I noticed when the car was turning over it sounded different than my Eclipse, but i figured it was just a Galant thing.

I got the car home I had more tools so I got to check some more things. The car was getting fuel and spark. That left only a compression or timing problem. I did a compression test and got 0 psi across the board. Come to find out the timing marks don't even come close to lining up. I removed the valve cover to find my intake rockers laying loose.

The only explanation I have is that when he tried to bump start it while the car rolled back wards he could have put the car in a forward gear. The bushings on the shifter are worn making proper gear selection difficult. This would have cause the motor to spin in reverse, timing belt tensioner releases it tension, camshafts jump teeth, and the next time the motor would be rotated in the proper direction it would retention. Thus making the timing belt look fine.

The trucker says it isn't his fault and that he had it in reverse. But how else could it have happened? Let me know and thanks in advance! Brodie

 

[andytalon]

I don't know what to tell you but, if the timing is off the you need a valve job probebly got some bent valves. If I were you I would just pull the whole motor! and figure it out yourself because I dont know how that could have happend. Probelbly more that the valves. Does it even turn over if you hand crank it or does it stop?

 

[brodiedehass]

I know I have bent valves and a scored camshaft. The camshaft was scored by one of the lifters. The purpose of this post is to figure out if the damage is the trucker fault. If it is he is responsible to fix it.

 

[robs90tsi]

Sounds like it, but can you prove it in court??? I wouldnt think so, just remember, you have to convice a judge that it was the drivers fault.

 

[bane3d]

I've seen posts like this before. I think one of the DSM Wisemen said that when you try to roll start an awd, you can cause it to skip timing. Who knows what the problem was before he tried to unload, but his bump starting it sounds like that is the culprit. I believe that fwd vehicles aren't susceptible to this, only awd.

d

 

[dsmgrimreaper]

screw court just kick the driver in the balls if he says hes not paying. its his fault ive herd of them doing that before when i worked at a dealership.

 

[brodiedehass]

Does anyone have any tangible information on a situation like this before?

 

[andytalon]

I've seen posts like this before. I think one of the DSM Wisemen said that when you try to roll start an awd, you can cause it to skip timing. Who knows what the problem was before he tried to unload, but his bump starting it sounds like that is the culprit. I believe that fwd vehicles aren't susceptible to this, only awd.

d

Is this True???? Can a DSM Wisemen please conferm this for brodiedehass.

 

[ndilo21]

Is this True???? Can a DSM Wisemen please conferm this for brodiedehass.

I'm almost positive that pop starting an awd in reverse can mess up the timing, but I thought a normal pop start was ok.

 

[dherron]

I would say that this is very possible. Either way, either in forward or reverse. A front wheel drive could slide the wheels a little to give some pressure away but a awd would put it all on the belt so, my verdict is driver error. those idiots shouldnt do that stuff.

 

[Gleason]

what exactly is a 'pop start'?

 

[Quasimondo]

what exactly is a 'pop start'?

Bump start. Get the car rolling with the clutch in, then dump it to turn the motor.

 

[19Eclipse90]

Do you know why it didn't start before he tried to 'pop start' it?

 

[brodiedehass]

I don't know why it didn't want to start to begin with, but I am thinking it might have been something with the steep incline it was sitting at.

 

[dherron]

possibly low on fuel? and the incline didnt allow it to go in the pump?

 

[mharrison]

According to your narrative, the facts are:

1. He was given charge of an operable vehicle.
2. He (and only he) operated the vehicle.
3. The driver admitted to operating the vehicle in an abnormal manner.
4. At delivery you were given an inoperable vehicle.

Unless the shipping contract specifies otherwise, logically this makes the driver, or trucking company liable. Even if the shipping contract states that they are not liable for damages, I think you'll be able to prove that the driver was negligent in trying to jump your car off like that.

They are required to carry insurance for instances like this. Most laws and courts follow logic (we won't go into the exceptions!) Force them to make a claim. Pursue legal action if you have to. Have a calm discussion, lay out the facts. If they are unreasonable, tell them you are contacting an attorney.

You will want to get a signed notarized statement from the seller that the vehicle was operable when turned over to the shipper for delivery.

Note: You have a limited amount of time. You need to contact the Company Office, not the driver, and start a damage claim process TODAY. The contracts typically include something like this:

In the event that vehicle should be delivered with any damage or loss, shipper's representative shall then forward monies due, if any, upon delivery, constituting final freight bill payment due, to an Insert Company Name office within seven days after delivery of the vehicle. Retention of the balance of tariff due by the shipper at the shipper's option beyond such seven-day period will constitute acknowledgment of satisfactory delivery. Shipper shall contact our office at Insert 1-800-number for further instructions.

 

[Old Mitsu Tech]

Personally I've never heard of "improper bump starting" How many threads on here started, "I just shut it off and now it won't start" Face it, we have a plethora of timing belt ailments. Who knows how old that belt was and what shape it was in. Whether you bump it in first, second or reverse, the engine spins the same way. It doesn't matter whether it's fwd or awd as far as I'm concerned. Now, if you put it in reverse and drag it forward with a bad belt, perhaps that could cause the belt to jump. I would buy that.

It's a shame it has happened, but unless someone saw the driver abusing the vehicle either with improper driving or whatever else could cause this, I would have to say that I doubt it would hold up in court.

I know I bought a 90 Eclipse GSX knowing the belt had been thrown. I've almost got it back together and am looking forward to driving it.

Use this time to do your head mods you perhaps have planned. At least when you repair it, you know the timing belt is new.

Good Luck

 

[brodiedehass]

Receipts show the timing belt was replaced 4000 miles ago. Wouldn't it be the same affect of the car rolling back wards in a forward gear as the car rolling forward in reverse?

 

[19Eclipse90]

Wouldn't it be the same affect of the car rolling back wards in a forward gear as the car rolling forward in reverse?

Wait... so the car was facing the rear of the truck, he rolled it off and tried to pop start it in reverse? IF this is the case, the driver is a complete moron because that makes absolutely no sense. Perhaps I am confused over what you are trying to say, but earlier you said he rolled it off and tried to pop start it in reverse, I assumed was rolling backwards off the truck. With your quoted comment it changes that. In my assumption, the car would be rolling off backwards in reverse gear which has nothing to do with what you just said.
And for the fuel thing, if the car was at an incline, was the nose of the car down? If this wasn't the case, then the nose was pointed up and if I'm not mistaken, isn't the fuel pump for these cars towards the rear of the tank?
Anyways, I can't think of any reason other than what has already been stated as to why it would have jumped timing. I just bought a 91 TSI FWD that was in time when I bought it but didn't run and I had it trailored to my home and by the time it got here it was out of time, all that happened in between the transition of the previous owner to me was he pushed it up on the trailor, drove it over, and we rolled it off. I'm with Old Mitsu Tech, sometimes these things just kinda happen.

 

[GVR4592]

Most auto shippers and tow truck drivers have special liability insurance for this sort of thing. They won't tell you that of course. You have to determine if it was actually his fault and then proceed from there. Chances are there is no way you can prove it was his fault and you will have to pay out of your pocket.

 

[Spoolin4Ever]

By the way, you said the receipt said 4000 miles ago. Is it just a receipt typed on plain paper? Maybe they falsified it. It'd be easy to do on a PC with a printer.

Have you inspected some of the other parts in the area of the timing belt? Waterpump? Accesory belts? Tensioners? Pulleys? How good of shape is the belt? Is it OEM or what?

Is there a chance that maybe it didn't really get done before, or done incorrectly?

PS Sorry to hear about this happening to you.

 

[Needsoles]

ihave a 91gs-t and i had the timing belt installed and theydid it wrong and it broke. my valves got ####ed and dinged my pistons. i already bought a new head. so should i get another motor or can i just slap the new head on

 

[Evil_speedracer]

Ooo yeah, you don't want to do that. First thing is your valves are probably bent. Well at least some of them, and all probably on the same side. You need to check and make sure the valves are all sealing or have someone do that for you if you do not know how. Then if they are OK, you can put it back on the motor, or if the one you are using now is shot...on a new one. If you had a shop do the work on the timing belt, you should be able to return to them and have them answer for it. Then the above checks can be done by them. Did a shop do it for you? If so, was there any kind of guarantee?