*searched* 20g no boost at all

[ThetanuRucka]

so. today i took the car out for a while, had the boost at 29 and was running great.. 3rd day on e85, tune was good. 11.9 afrs 16-17 degrees of timing.
41lb/min and a 89% IDC.

well. i got to the car tonight and was going to take it out cruising for a little bit in town etc. warmed it up. made boost a few times. then i tried to get on it again. nothing. dead 0psi. i cant even hear the turbo freespooling.
checked the hoses/clamps all look good. the car idles perfectly, and drives NA perfectly. 19-20 inches of vacuum. just will not make boost.

checked for pre turbo leaks/collapses or cut vaccum lines, couplers cut.. nothing.
popped the WG arm off the flapper and moved the flapper so i know its not seized.
i was able to pull the wg with a good amount of force, but it was not easy. the compressor shaft is spinning. im not smoking. im not idling high. my AFRs arent off while cruising. its just not making boost.

my ideas at the moment are burned wastgate flapper valve.
or blown turbo in some way.
any ideas hints suggestions?

 

[jpmxrider489]

It has to be a huge leak. Does it even try to boost? Does it burn oil or smoke?

 

[ThetanuRucka]

doesnt even try to boost. doesnt smoke at all.
ive had IC pipe fall off of cars and the turbo freespool. this is not that. i mean it doesnt make a single psi.

do these wastgate flappers fail? and burn up>?

checked every coupler today. no slits no popped off clamps, everything is exactly the way it was before.
pulled the manifold off. (couldnt get the 02 housing off because of the shitty placement of one of the bolts. ) but stuck my finger in the housing thru the top and felt the wastegate flapper. which was closed, and i felt it and there were no holes. wired the wastegate flapper shut to see if the actuator was bad. no dice.
the turbo has a little up and down and in and out play. not EXCESSIVE but. idk exactly where that line is drawn. its not making any horrific noises and it drives just fine, just with no boost. the car idles great, theres no vacuum surge or anything. checked the BOV it seems to be moving. i even capped it off and sealed it incase it was leaking(tried to make a quick 1-2 psi. nothing.)
ive come to the point where it seems like for some reason the turbo itself has lost the ability to produce positive pressure... this sucks... any help?

 

[DeadlyScone]

4 words.. Boost leak test it.

my guess is its probably something to do with your waste gate assembly.
its externally waste gated correct?

 

[bryanwheat]

4 words.. Boost leak test it.

my guess is its probably something to do with your waste gate assembly.
its externally waste gated correct?

He said wastegate flapper and wastegate arm, so it is probably internal wastegated. I would do as others have suggested, do a boost leak test just to rule that out. If It doesn't have any major leaks i would pull the turbo and see what your turbine wheel looks like.

 

[ThetanuRucka]

What on the inside of a turbo failing would allow it to continue to spin but not making boost?... and not make a horrific noise.?

bad compressor housing seal? bad shaft seals? F'ed fins?.... just wondering what to be looking for.
and its not smoking at all so i assume oil seals are still in tact at least. but the axial play is significant.

 

[DeadlyScone]

What on the inside of a turbo failing would allow it to continue to spin but not making boost?... and not make a horrific noise.?

bad compressor housing seal? bad shaft seals? F'ed fins?.... just wondering what to be looking for.
and its not smoking at all so i assume oil seals are still in tact at least. but the axial play is significant.

just boost leak test it as your starting point. then go from there.

 

[bryanwheat]

The seals aren't going to make it not spool. I would suspect a damaged turbine wheel if it isn't spinning at all. Check for thrust play (in and out). If the thrust bearing is toast the wheels could be contacting the housings also.

 

[josh1095]

not sure of the terms, but it has to be either boost leak, or the turbines on the hot side or cold side are completely shot. what if the exaust side(hot) is just frozen or the shaft is somehow seperated. that would make some noise tho..... weird problem, please update when u fix it. and good luck!

 

[dsmlover07]

Let us know what you find, and we can go from there, worse case you need a rebuild.

 

[bryanwheat]

not sure of the terms, but it has to be either boost leak, or the turbines on the hot side or cold side are completely shot. what if the exaust side(hot) is just frozen or the shaft is somehow seperated. that would make some noise tho..... weird problem, please update when u fix it. and good luck!

It would only be possible if the shaft was broken. You could test for this without pulling the turbo by pulling the intake pipe and starting the engine. IT will run like crank because the maf not being connected but it will run good enough to see if the compressor wheel is spinning.

 

[dsmlover07]

I guess well know more soon.

 

[dsmdeliveryboy]

Did the clamp between the compressor and turbine housing come loose/fall off? Is the turbo downfiring(TDO6)or a regular TDO5H J pipe style? Does it even get to 0 on the boost gauge? Or it just stays in vacuum?

 

[GSLENK]

can you hold the wastegate shut temporarily to see if it makes boost then?

 

[dsmdeliveryboy]

can you hold the wastegate shut temporarily to see if it makes boost then?

How do you hold a wastegate shit while your driving?

Just disconnect the vacuum line to the wastegate and see if it makes boost.

 

[Colt4G63 also]

How do you hold a wastegate shit while your driving?

Just disconnect the vacuum line to the wastegate and see if it makes boost.

I think he may have meant to wire it shut or something. If the spring is broken it wouldn't need a hose hooked up to open and prevent the OP from building boost.

Since the wastegate doesn't feel broken, it probably doesn't have anything to do with that anyway.

I'm thinking there's no fins on the turbine wheel.

If the BOV was stuck open, then you would still hear it spool right?

A boost leak test would be great right now.

 

[ThetanuRucka]

walking outside to do a BLT. but for starters heres what ive done... and what i know
1. the wastegate flapper opens and closes i wired it shut to make sure it stayed closed no matter what. no boost.
2. i pulled the exhaust manifold off. and looked into the turbo from the top. spun the compressor side turbine, saw the exhaust side spinning as well.
3. there is side to side and axial play, a decent amount of axial play. but no noise. its not kenne belling yet.
4. no smoke. nothing.
5. its at 0. datalog shows it.
6. it spins with the car running. i can even hear it making that light throttle slipping the clutch wiiishhh noise.
7. its the Hahn Super 20G turbo. idk exactly what the housing are, but its the 10cm2 exhaust with the 20g compressor i believe. tod5h/tod6 or something idk .

boost leak test results in 20minutes. i hope i made a stupid mistake and its just an easy fix.

well. didnt make it out of my apartment complex, before i was greeted with............... kenne bell ....
damn. i guess i caught it decently quick. what am i looking at rebuilding wise?? ill do it my self. u think the housing will be salvagable even if they are scored a little?

who sells a kit for the hahn with fins shafts seals and bearings etc.? the works.

 

[CrawlinZX14]

If u tanked the turbo like that, it would likely be cheaper and a quicker solution to buy a used turbo then rebuild the one u have if its your daily driver. If its not then talk to justin and see what he would charge u to rebuild it or if he could get u a rebuild kit.


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[ThetanuRucka]

actually now that i think about it... if the housings have been scored.. i probably cant reuse any of it... that sucks.. guess its new turbo time....
....

actually now that i think about it... if the housings have been scored.. i probably cant reuse any of it... that sucks.. guess its new turbo time....
....

well... seeing as this was a Hahn piece. and im broke as shit .
looks like ill be going with a big 16g. should still make my 380-400whp goals on e85 i guess....?....

what sucks is that my o2 housing is for the hahn shit so

16g
o2 housing
j pipe.

my FMIC piping doesnt go up and meet the turbo becuase my turbo is clocked downward and has that 90 degree bend on it. is there a common piece i can buy?

the 16g will bolt up to my stock exhaust, and i can take that shitty spacing plate on my head off because it should clear the block i assume?....

how do i spot a legit big 16g vs ebay trash?

pulled the terdblow off today... didnt figure i need to be driving it while its on its way out...
heres what we got...
i think a salvagable shaft/wheel
compressor wheel is toast i think..
housing doesnt look too bad, i think i caught it quick enough..
so, im contemplating either buying a 400 dollar 0 mile rebuilt MHI 20g and keeping this one, or sending this one off to be rebuilt.

my o2 housing wont match uo to a stock mhi turbo, since this is the hahn exhaust housing. will i be able to just put my exhaust housing on the rebuilt MHI?...
its the 10cm2 housing.

well. ordering a rebuild kit from justin.
heres the culprit. im thinkin contaminated oil, it feels slightly gritty but idk..

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thrust collar cracked.