s16g/s20g users! help me out

[bubbaGSX]

can we all get along? i bought the turbo today, ill let u guys know how it goes. i do have supporting mods and ill have it tuned so ill let u guys know how "laggy" the turbo is.

 

[midnght]

Anything is laggy when it comes to a larger turbo and the fell of a T-25 being removed. I have a SBR 20g and it has some lag (full boost at 3,900) but not enough to lose.

I think that u have looked over the fact that DSM is in a FWD car and has done what most of us are wanting to do. His time has gotten him pretty high on that 1/4 list. He is # 10 (disregarding the #9 Mods need to clean that up) and has beaten many 16g powered AWD on that list aswell. I am not knocking anything I have not used MYSELF.

Nice Job DSM and good luck with that s20g! The only thing that should be written about the hrc turbos shold come from actual buyer abd owners (past/present).

Good Luck!!

 

[GRNDSM]

>I think that u have looked over the fact that DSM is in a FWD car and
>has done what most of us are wanting to do.

Chad, do you realise that mod for mod, or given the same power, a FWD car will have higher trap speed?

So 113mph on a FWD car is comprable to around 110-111mph on an AWD car with the same power... But once you start talking about ET's, AWDs are way ahead, unless you stick really good slicks on a FWD .

Leon
RR

 

[dsm]

wow this can go on for a long time.

 

[bubbaGSX]

everyone just wish me best! thats should settle this mess

 

[sophat34]

well I do wish you the best, I like my hrc super 20g. one question for grndsm, yes there is lag on the turbo I understand that. but the cars that you worked on, did they have the turbonetics manifold or the spacer plate? I thought that that hahn guy was full of it when he pushed the manifold so I didnt get it, and I was dissapointed at the spool time. so I bought the manifold, and it droped the spool to around 3200-3500rpms. I would consider this livable, I have never been to a track so I cant say any thing regarding that.

 

[AWDLATIN]

Originally posted by bubbaGSX
everyone just wish me best! thats should settle this mess

wish you the best, man. Hopefully you get some positive results!!

 

[bubbaGSX]

Originally posted by AWDLATIN


wish you the best, man. Hopefully you get some positive results!!

thanks!!! ill keep u guys updated!

 

[RACER-X]

I second that... GOOD LUCK! All i can say is that i was happy with mine although i did'nt have the advantage of being able to work with sever different turbos so i really cant compare lag time, but at a 5,000rpm launch there is no lag my front end would lift up a couple of inches (hood) not car and would almost pin me to my seat.

 

[ShapeGSX]

Originally posted by midnght

I think that u have looked over the fact that DSM is in a FWD car and has done what most of us are wanting to do. His time has gotten him pretty high on that 1/4 list. He is # 10 (disregarding the #9 Mods need to clean that up) and has beaten many 16g powered AWD on that list aswell. I am not knocking anything I have not used MYSELF.

I guess we are looking at a different list, then.

This is the one I go by:
http://www.dsmtimes.org/fwd.htm

And check out the 16G times on this page:
http://www.dsmtimes.org/awd.htm

The current fastest 16G ran an [email protected].
Then:
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected] (nitrous)
[email protected] (nitrous)
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]

Then you FINALLY get to my horrid time of [email protected]. I gotta learn how to DRIVE!

Holy crap, I just realized how far I have to go!

On top of this, not a single one of the times I listed was run with a "Super 16G."

In fact, the fastest Super 20G time I can find on the list is an 11.881@122mph. A good mph for sure, but it is slower than the fastest normal 16G time. And it isn't any faster than a normal 20G, despite the 10cm housing.

And on top of all of this, now I hear that to get the most out of the turbo, you need a different exhaust manifold.

What am I missing? Why would anyone go with a "Super" turbo when the regular 16G and 20G have done so much better in the past, and continue to do really well?

 

[GRNDSM]

>one question for grndsm, yes there is lag on the turbo I understand that.
>but the cars that you worked on, did they have the turbonetics manifold
>or the spacer plate?

They both had spacer plate adapters. I can’t really see Turbonetics manifold making a huge difference, I wonder if you simply fixed some exhaust leaks by getting rid of the spacers? But if you were going to use that manifold, isn’t there a bunch of much better turbos that will bolt up to it?

>In fact, the fastest Super 20G time I can find on the list is an 11.881@122mph.
>A good mph for sure, but it is slower than the fastest normal 16G time. And it
>isn't any faster than a normal 20G, despite the 10cm housing.

That is a signature of a laggy turbo (relatively high trap speed at embarrassingly bad ET)! I should know, I have a bunch of 11.8-11.9 @ 120-122mph timeslips on an improperly sized turbo and I am a pretty good driver (I know you could not tell from those times). What you guys do not understand is that launch is NOT where a laggy turbo hurts you! Give it enough revs and you can launch even the laggiest of turbos with a 5sp tranny. But that lag seriously hurts you between the shifts. You run into a situation where shifting with out lifting NOT optional, it is REQUIRED to achieve decent ETs.

I understand that everyone who aspires to have big power, will eventually go with a laggier turbo, there is nothing wrong with it. But if you are going to accept that handicap, make sure that you get something in return! IMO, “super” turbos give you that lag WITHOUT giving you anything back.

I made a similar mistake when I choose 60-1 T3/T4 with Stage 5 exhaust side (way too big for our 2.0L motor). I didn’t listen to several experienced people who told me that this was NOT a good idea. Well, I wasted almost an entire season making those embarrassing passes. I am simply trying to make you guys see that accepting lag is not as harmless you might think. But hey, I can certainly relate to making stupid mistakes…

>What am I missing? Why would anyone go with a "Super" turbo when
>the regular 16G and 20G have done so much better in the past, and
>continue to do really well?

Give it up, Josh, those turbos have an inexplicable cult following of relatively slow cars… Give them time, they will learn. I know I did .

Leon
RR

 

[Blitz]

ShapeGSX,

The 16G record is [email protected] with a small-clipped 16G and no nitrous. This is from the DSM drag times page when James Heck was in charge of the page.

60' 1.606
1/8 [email protected]
1/4 [email protected]
Driver - Chris Tichy
Car - 92 Talon TSI AWD
Track - Etown, NJ
Date - 11/22/98

 

[ShapeGSX]

Originally posted by Blitz

60' 1.606
1/8 [email protected]
1/4 [email protected]
Driver - Chris Tichy
Car - 92 Talon TSI AWD
Track - Etown, NJ
Date - 11/22/98

Thanks, I actually knew that. But I didn't want to quote the time without knowing the exact details.

 

[GRNDSM]

Unfortunately, www.DSMtimes.org does not keep older records (which I think that they should). Once a person, sells his car (and they find out about it) or if they run a faster time on a larger turbo, their old time is gone (record or not)…

Just as Chris’s Small 16G record is missing, I am sure that there might be some missing Super16G times that are faster than 12.56 (current fastest Super 16G time).

Incidentally, both big and small 16Gs had the same record ~ 11.59.

Leon
RR

 

[dsm]

ALL SUPER TURBOS ARE BAD

 

[dsm]

heres me on the list
31 12.705 111.80 8.328 89.71 2.067 99 Eclipse GST big 16g NO Jorge Alvarez Tampa Bay DSM
31 12.705 112.99 8.363 88.26 2.001 92 Laser RST TDO6 20g NO Tony Penza Barnyard Blasters
33 12.707 112.93 8.295 1.971 98 Eclipse GST BR20g NO Sal Lozano Sal Lozano
34 12.721 109.30 8.244 87.25 1.922 91 Talon Tsi 14b NO Sebastian Rochon
35 12.736 110.98 8.375 89.54 2.089 95 Eclipse GST 17c Frank Jr. NO George Sebeck Hybridynamics
36 12.752 111.15 8.302 87.60 2.055 97 Eclipse GST FP Big 28 NO Taylor Hinton
37 12.805 109.29 8.300 90.33 1.980 90 Laser RST small 16g NO Mike Johnson
38 12.817 111.22 8.390 88.09 2.099 91 Talon TSi AUTO small 16g YES Geoff Lissaman
39 12.820 115.58 8.490 89.64 2.147 96 Eclipse GST BR 580 NO Adam Hritz
40 12.829 111.04 8.359 87.75 1.985 95 Eclipse GST RRE 20g NO Nathan James
41 12.880 110.78 8.407 85.65 1.992 97 Eclipse GST T3/T4 57trim NO Glenn Miller Import Concepts
42 12.897 94.75 8.194 89.13 1.951 90 Eclipse GST 14b NO Jeremy Roberts I make excuses about my ET
43 12.899 109.00 8.366 90.24 2.045 91 Eclipse GST small 16g NO Mark Fraser VCSDSMZ
44 12.904 111.37 8.485 89.63 2.139 91 Lasar 14b NO Aaron Ruppert Ruppert Racing
i should have super 16g i dont know why i put big 16, but anyways, look theres someone on there with a green running slower than me. does that mean that the green is a bad turbo? no, look someone has a BR20g and runs slower than me. do u not see my point?!?! i didnt maximize the s16g when i had it im sure there was more i couldve gotten out of that turbo, but i decided to move onto something bigger because i knew the s16g wasnt going to get me to my goal. i dont care if it is expensive, i took the chance at using this turbo and in the end it paid off and gave me what i wanted. thats all i care about. to the guy buying the s20g, good luck keep us all posted.

 

[ShapeGSX]

Originally posted by dsm
i should have super 16g i dont know why i put big 16, but anyways, look theres someone on there with a green running slower than me. does that mean that the green is a bad turbo? no, look someone has a BR20g and runs slower than me. do u not see my point?!?!

There are always plenty of people who bolt on a proven turbo and run slow. That is just the way it is. I've seen lots of people ask if it was ok to bolt up some huge turbo with a sidemount and stock injectors and a stock downpipe. There have been quite a few on this site in just the past month. The key is to compare yourself and your setup to the guys who run the best times.

The difference is that the turbos you just mentioned (Green and BR20G) are proven. They have run great numbers, and continue to do so.

The S16G and S20G have been out for years now, and have yet to produce the numbers that other 16G and 20G turbos with 7cm housings have.

 

[dsm]

Originally posted by ShapeGSX


There are always plenty of people who bolt on a proven turbo and run slow. That is just the way it is. I've seen lots of people ask if it was ok to bolt up some huge turbo with a sidemount and stock injectors and a stock downpipe. There have been quite a few on this site in just the past month. The key is to compare yourself and your setup to the guys who run the best times.

The difference is that the turbos you just mentioned (Green and BR20G) are proven. They have run great numbers, and continue to do so.

The S16G and S20G have been out for years now, and have yet to produce the numbers that other 16G and 20G turbos with 7cm housings have.

i agree, not alot of ppl use them, and the fastest ive seen the s20g run is in hahns neon with the aid of nitrous, 9's. hell as far as i know im the only person thats run 12s with a s16g. the only issue i see with these turbos is price. the little lag the s20g is showing me is nothing, just from my experience

 

[bubbaGSX]

so let me get this straight...

my install kit from the b16g would work but i need:
spacer plate, mitsubishi exhaust manfold

anything else? please be specific.

i just gotta make sure i have everything to do the install

 

[GRNDSM]

As I told you before, your 16G install kit is pretty much useless when installing this turbo...

If you must insist on using S20G, buy a matching install kit!!! I am sure you can sell your current 16G kit to offset the price of the new kit. As you will need a LOT of CUSTOM parts...

Speaking of this install kit. Who said that it was only $200? It appears to be closer to $500...

Leon
RR

 

[midnght]

Originally posted by ShapeGSX


I guess we are looking at a different list, then.

Yeah, I am looking at this list: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/fwdquartermilelist.php?s=&what=quickest

 

[midnght]

Originally posted by GRNDSM
>I think that u have looked over the fact that DSM is in a FWD car and
>has done what most of us are wanting to do.

Chad, do you realise that mod for mod, or given the same power, a FWD car will have higher trap speed?

So 113mph on a FWD car is comprable to around 110-111mph on an AWD car with the same power... But once you start talking about ET's, AWDs are way ahead, unless you stick really good slicks on a FWD .

Leon
RR

Yes, I understand that all too well My 20g gave me a nice 14.00 et with a 112 trap:laugh: . My 60' was 2.79 ! I still have the stock suspension and some NO name tires burning up the stock clutch

 

[GPTourer]

All the critics of the Super Turbos keep asking, what's the benefit of the Supers? Why buy one over a regular Mitsubishi or a nicer hybrid? But is it not for the simple fact that they claim the 10cm housing eliminates boost creep? And the fact that since they are ALL Mitsubishi, you get a full MHI factory warrenty, instead of having to wait for a long turnaround time and possibly higher rebuild cost on some sort of Frankenhybrid? I don't see anywhere on the site that they are claiming better PERFORMANCE, just simply ease of installation on 2G, no funky J pipe, full warranty, and no boost creep making consistency more likely and engine damage less likely.

Right? Or am I missing something?

 

[midnght]

Originally posted by GPTourer

Right? Or am I missing something?

This whole post was about performance of the s16g/s20g. Granted it got offtopic, it was a question about install kit. Not the benefits of lag or Creep. It then turned into a GOOD TURBO/BAD TURBO. That is the reason for dyno, track, and butt dyno quotes all over this particular thread.

Originally posted by bubbaGSX
im about to order my s20g turbo and i was wondering if i have to buy their install kit. i did call them and they said yes i do need it. (ofcourse they want us to buy from their store) my question is can i use my install kit from my b16g to install the s20g.

thanks

 

[turbobrian]

dam! i cant belive people are supporting the super turbos! they have had many years to prove well but never did. there are countless people running good and consitant times and traps on plain big and small 16g's and 20g's. why would you go with a turbo proven to not be proven!!! and to add to the confusion you need an install kit thats almost another 400+ dollars. there are a few very well know dsmers telling you that they are just not worth the hassle, why do you insist on saying the oppisite? dont make the mistake and waste time and money. do it right the fist time. go with the plain old, tried and true 20g! there are many who run mid and high 11 sec 1/4 mile's with a very simple mods list. not that 11's are easy but that this turbo can do it hands down with the right driver and setup says something.