Running E85..

[95GreenGSX]

I want to run e85 in my 1g. I have a 255, afrp, 550s, and a 18g. E85 is easily accessible around here, so I figured why not. I was think about getting 900+ injectors. Do I need ss fuel lines/ different fuel filter/ tank? My tuning/ fuel management would be with DSMlink that is coming soon. Do they have a setting for e85? And is it ok to run it with a stock motor?

Any advise would help. Thanks.

 

[toofast82]

Some DSMs have been running e85 for over 2years on stock tank,lines,filter. You will need to change your fuel filter a few times when you start running it because it will clean out your tank pretty good and lines,etc. You typically need to add about 30% more fuel/global compensation so example if you had 1000cc, you would gauge about 700cc or so. I just got a set of 1150cc and bigger pump and afpr so ill be doing some e85 tuning within the next week myself.

 

[2gGSX]

I want to run e85 in my 1g. I have a 255, afrp, 550s, and a 18g. E85 is easily accessible around here, so I figured why not. I was think about getting 900+ injectors. Do I need ss fuel lines/ different fuel filter/ tank?

You don't need those necessarily, although given enough time (many years), the tank would get corroded probably just because of its composition. There are plenty of 1g users who have been running E85 for years now with no problems though.

My tuning/ fuel management would be with DSMlink that is coming soon. Do they have a setting for e85? And is it ok to run it with a stock motor?

Any advise would help. Thanks.

You just have to adjust the fuel settings in DSMLink to compensate for the E85. Yes, you can run it with a stock motor.

 

[95GreenGSX]

Some DSMs have been running e85 for over 2years on stock tank,lines,filter. You will need to change your fuel filter a few times when you start running it because it will clean out your tank pretty good and lines,etc. You typically need to add about 30% more fuel/global compensation so example if you had 1000cc, you would gauge about 700cc or so. I just got a set of 1150cc and bigger pump and afpr so ill be doing some e85 tuning within the next week myself.

Cool, what turbo are you using and are you using link or a afc?

 

[95GreenGSX]

You don't need those necessarily, although given enough time (many years), the tank would get corroded probably just because of its composition. There are plenty of 1g users who have been running E85 for years now with no problems though.



You just have to adjust the fuel settings in DSMLink to compensate for the E85. Yes, you can run it with a stock motor.

Ok thanks. So with link, if I get 1000 cc injectors do I tell link i'm using 700 or no

 

[jrohner]

I just take my injector size and divide it by about 1.4 and use that as my injector size -- ex: 650's would be set about the same as the stock 450's.

You don't really need all that big of injectors for E85. 750's are be fine for up to around 450awhp on a dynojet, but it depends a lot on your tune. Usually getting ones a little bigger doesn't cost much more though so it's worth going bigger than you think you'll need. I've had my 2g on E85 for a couple years and I haven't even so much as changed the fuel filter.

 

[toofast82]

Cool, what turbo are you using and are you using link or a afc?

Neither! I tune my own eproms and run speed density Im going to get a feel for the e85 with a 14b. I have a 6blade hx40 that ill be putting on hopefully within the next month along with some other goodies. Im also in the process of swapping over to 5spd which i want to get done first. I have tried adding a few gallons to a tank before to suppress knock.

 

[2gGSX]

Ok thanks. So with link, if I get 1000 cc injectors do I tell link i'm using 700 or no

It's definitely explained somewhere in the Link forums. Global has to be recalculated based on the percentage ethanol and the shift in the stoichiometric ratio.

I just take my injector size and divide it by about 1.4 and use that as my injector size -- ex: 650's would be set about the same as the stock 450's.

You don't really need all that big of injectors for E85. 750's are be fine for up to around 450awhp on a dynojet, but it depends a lot on your tune. Usually getting ones a little bigger doesn't cost much more though so it's worth going bigger than you think you'll need. I've had my 2g on E85 for a couple years and I haven't even so much as changed the fuel filter.

That may be so on gas, but 750's are in no way or form big enough for 450 awhp on E85.

 

[blackrosenova40]

Find an online injector calculator, change the BSFC to .8 and then you have a calculator for e85.

 

[95GreenGSX]

It's definitely explained somewhere in the Link forums. Global has to be recalculated based on the percentage ethanol and the shift in the stoichiometric ratio.

That may be so on gas, but 750's are in no way or form big enough for 450 awhp on E85.

I thought that too. Dont you need 900+ for e85 to make it right. I have 550s now and if i wasnt going to upgrade to e85, i would be getting 780s.

Neither! I tune my own eproms and run speed density Im going to get a feel for the e85 with a 14b. I have a 6blade hx40 that ill be putting on hopefully within the next month along with some other goodies. Im also in the process of swapping over to 5spd which i want to get done first. I have tried adding a few gallons to a tank before to suppress knock.

Good luck with the hx40. Ill end up getting a holset for my build in winter.

 

[toofast82]

That may be so on gas, but 750's are in no way or form big enough for 450 awhp on E85.

Well jrohner already made 414whp and 459ft/lb on 750s and e85

 

[2gGSX]

414 =/= 450.

Unless you're somehow extracting 11-12+ whp per lb/min (in which case I applaud you), it's VERY unlikely. Assuming 45 lbs/min airflow (10 whp per lb/min) and maxed out 750's, 43 psi base fuel pressure and straight up E85, you can do it at 100% IDC and .88 lambda (13:1 gas AFR). Feel free to try it out!

 

[jrohner]

We all know how bench racing is treated around here, and this thread is getting to be not far from it.

That may be so on gas, but 750's are in no way or form big enough for 450 awhp on E85.

414 =/= 450.
Unless you're somehow extracting 11-12+ whp per lb/min (in which case I applaud you), it's VERY unlikely. Assuming 45 lbs/min airflow (10 whp per lb/min) and maxed out 750's, 43 psi base fuel pressure and straight up E85, you can do it at 100% IDC and .88 lambda (13:1 gas AFR). Feel free to try it out!

There is also someone on here with 750's and an 18G with 445awhp, and I believe he tunes quite a bit richer than I do.

I'd take real world results (facts) over calculations (estimates) every time.

No, I've never logged 45lbs/min. The highest I've ever actually seen was a hair over 40, and that was at a lower RPM than my peak HP is at. I did not log at the dyno, so I'm not sure what it was on there. And before you cry BS dyno, I still did 370 on a Dyno Dynamics, which reads considerably lower than the Dynojet -- most people supposedly showed over 15% higher on the Dynojet, but mine did not show that much difference -- I think I had a little less boost on the Dynojet.

Let's just say I can richen my car more than enough to make it stumble, so I doubt my injectors are anywhere near totally maxed with the tune I actually run. I'm positive I could break 450awhp without changing injectors.

I also have a car tuned with 680's at 321hp, also on E85.

Find an online injector calculator, change the BSFC to .8 and then you have a calculator for e85.

And to those talking BSFC numbers: for one thing, .8 BSFC would be quite an inefficient engine; for another, you don't know your BSFC unless you've dynoed and metered your fuel flow during the dyno pull (I'm sure this is done quite rarely on a chassis dyno). And I'm talking TRUE fuel flow, as in a meter in the fuel lines like you do on an engine dyno, not just logging IPW and calculating it from injector size & deadtimes -- sure that gets you fairly close, but it's NOT perfect accuracy (especially on a stock ECU).

----

All you guys are a little too into calculations. Pen and paper don't beat results. How many of you even have much E85 experience?

With all the calculating you guys like doing, you don't actually need a car anymore -- drag racing on a calculator. You could save a lot of money by calculating how much power a car should have, and then just calculate the 1/4 mile times to go with it. To me it just doesn't sound as fun as driving a real car though, it's about like reading about some car being awesome vs the fun of driving one that's even 1/2 as awesome.

 

[2gGSX]

I've ran E85 for the last 13 months on my car and helped a few friends tune their cars with it. Have you been to a track for any real world results?

What IDCs do you see? Could you post a log in Excel format with RPM, speed, IDC, airflow (g/rev or lbs/min)?

 

[jrohner]

I've ran E85 for the last 13 months on my car and helped a few friends tune their cars with it. Have you been to a track for any real world results?

What IDCs do you see? Could you post a log in Excel format with RPM, speed, IDC, airflow (g/rev or lbs/min)?

I only got 1 pass down the 1/8th mile, and it was my first time launching the car with this 6-puck clutch. I did a 7.9 @ 93mph spinning bald tires. I didn't even pull my subs out of the trunk. With the tires I have now and a decent shifting transmission, times would go down a lot -- even with just more runs that night it would've gotten better.

I have yet to try Evoscan so I've only logged hopelessly with OBD2 so far, but IDC means pretty much nothing anyways on the stock ECU -- some guys get 130-140% with no issues at all, which is obviously impossible (having the injectors open MORE than all the time). I'd much rather go by richening my tune and seeing if the AFR's are still reliable. Heck, I've seen 80-85+% IDC's on bone stoke 1G's.

 

[95GreenGSX]

If I can get 950s+ for the same price or not that much more, who would even consider lower? I rather have the injectors at a lower duty cycle anyways. I see your 1/8 mile times, got any 1/4 mile times?

 

[jrohner]

I don't have an 1/4 mile track within 100 miles of me that I know of, so with only 1 1/8 mile run I wouldn't have ventured out to find a track. I need to get a tranny in that shifts decent before I would consider going to a 1/4 mile track.

Yeah, getting a little bit bigger injectors don't usually cost much more, so there's really no reason to go with smaller ones, unless of coarse you find a good deal on a specific set or size. I mentioned that in my first post on this thread. I got some bigger ones a while back, but these 750's are working great so I put the bigger ones in my 1gb talon awd auto instead. At some point I'll probably give em a try in my 2g.

 

[toofast82]

i would just go with big injectors and be done with it, since you said you will be using dsmlink anyways

 

[MY1GDSM]

All this talk about 650/750's and like toofast82 said above he has dsmlink...
I've always been one to say if you have a way to run big injectors go as big as you can, I hate having to buy something more than once. I say go get some 1150 or if you have bigger plans down the road go with some of the new blue max injectors in whatever size floats your boat...

I can't think of one reason for him to get 750's....Besides to run of of fuel...Even if he does'nt right now

 

[UofACATS]

We all know how bench racing is treated around here, and this thread is getting to be not far from it.


I'd take real world results (facts) over calculations (estimates) every time.


All you guys are a little too into calculations. Pen and paper don't beat results. How many of you even have much E85 experience?

With all the calculating you guys like doing, you don't actually need a car anymore -- drag racing on a calculator. You could save a lot of money by calculating how much power a car should have, and then just calculate the 1/4 mile times to go with it. To me it just doesn't sound as fun as driving a real car though, it's about like reading about some car being awesome vs the fun of driving one that's even 1/2 as awesome.

And you're relying on dyno numbers as proof? Could you call those dyno numbers "calculations?" Think about it.

Show me trap speeds and tell me what your car weighs. Then I'll "calculate" your estimated WHP. (We ALL look at dyno numbers sideways and have plenty to say, but trap speeds shuts us up fast..)