Rebuilding my motor questions

[TuRBoTaLooN]

First of all, I haven't posted here in a while. Usually I just look around, search for stuff I need, and check out what the vendors are having on sale. But I am right in the middle of my motor build (finally) and I've done research as much as I can and talked to people, but I wanted to post up here as well to get some opinions and some answers that are specific to my situation.

So here's a QUICK background:

Last summer I spun a rod bearing. It actually wasn't too bad, but I was itching to build a 6 bolt for my 95 tsi awd anyway. So I got a built 6 bolt bottom end, all forged, cry treated, teflon coated, arp everything, the whole nine. Got the stock 7 bolt head rebuilt, decked, 3 angle valve job, all stock though. No aftermarket springs/retainers. Got all new gaskets, seals, front case with BSE, etc....

Now this is my first time building a motor. I've somewhat documented this whole thing on NJDSM here (Engine rebuild advice - Page 4 - NJDSM).

I got the cylinder head back from the shop and started to assemble it. I soaked the lifters and rockers in brake cleaner, dried them, lubed them up and put them in the head. I carefully laid down the cams, and put the cam caps on and lightly finger tightened so they stay in place. This way all the valves are still 100% closed for when it goes on the block. Go the front case with BSE on the block, head studs are lubed and ready to go. I put on the balance shaft sprocket (from 7 bolt) crank trigger plate (1g) and crank timing sprocket (from 7 bolt) on and torque the crank bolt to 60 lb/ft. Odd thing is that the crank never turned when i torqued the bolt. So then I went to turn the crank because the middle pistons were at just about TDC, but it wouldn't budge. I soaked the pistons with WD-40 to get them to move, but nothing. There was not rust or anything in the cylinder walls, and it turned freely a week or so ago. So finally I take off the crank bolt, crank sprocket, trigger plate, and see the balance shaft sprocket on there a bit crooked and that prevented the crank from turning. I took off that sprocket and it turned with ease. So I left that for another day.

Next, I put about 4 layers of copper spray on the new oem composite head gasket and laid it on the block. So then I slipped the head over the studs and it went on no problem. I started putting the washers over the studs, but a couple corner ones had trouble because of the springs. They are OEM springs, so I was a bit confused, but perhaps it was due to putting a 7 bolt head on a 6 bolt block. So I pulled the head off because one of the washers fell through a hole and I needed to get it out. I then laid down all the washers and put the head back on for a second time making sure the washers were over the studs ok. Then I proceeded to torque down the head studs in the recommended order to 30lb/ft, 60lb/ft, then 85 lb/ft. Then I torqued down all the cam camps to 18lb/ft. At some point I also put on the cam gears and torqued them, but later realized I had the exhaust gear on the intake cam, and vice versa!!

So anyway, I had a few questions because I'm super nervous about screwing this all up.

1) Since I have a BSE kit, do I still need the balance shaft sprocket? If so, can I use a 7 bolt one on a 6 bolt motor?
2) Some people said 6 bolts don't have a crank trigger plate...is this true?
3) What is the correct way to install these sprockets and trigger plate?
4) I'm nervous about the clyinder head I put on. Is there a way to check for compression the way it sits? Can I do anything else to see if it was done correctly or if I bent a valve or something?

Thanks in advance for the help guys!

~Jeff

 

[DSM_PWR]

1) Are you talking about the sprocket or pulley? The Oil pump sprocket is what i think your talking about and Yes, you do need it
2)They're not called crank trigger plates, but they do have a plate
3)Since there is a Guide on both the trigger plate and sprocket, its pretty hard to mess it up
4)There's no way to check for compression since you wont have enough momentum to turn the motor fast enough with your hand to do a compression check..

 

[TuRBoTaLooN]

1) Are you talking about the sprocket or pulley? The Oil pump sprocket is what i think your talking about and Yes, you do need it

I'm talking about the two sprockets and the trigger plate that go over the end of the crankshaft. The oil pump sprocket is on the oil pump.

2)They're not called crank trigger plates, but they do have a plate

I thought they were called the trigger plate. In later thinking, it may have been for the 2g crank angle sensor??

3)Since there is a Guide on both the trigger plate and sprocket, its pretty hard to mess it up

Hahah, apparently I did. I know what you're talking about with the guide, maybe I just have to open my eyes. I just want to make sure I don't fudge it up again

4)There's no way to check for compression since you wont have enough momentum to turn the motor fast enough with your hand to do a compression check..

When I get the oil pan on, can I check for oil leaks and such? Maybe coolant leaks too?

 

[Grimis]

As to what DSM PWR said, for

#1 if you have the BSE you will need that plate or a spacer plate (Mitsu part number MD128107)
#2 there called Crankshaft Sensing Plates (from caps)
#3 the pin on the crank will help you install it, only thing is you can get it "flipped" look for the teeth marks on the plate, will show you what sprocket was where (helps me when putting it back on)
#4 Ditto, only way to check is to have it in the engine bay and crank it to check compression.

 

[DSM_PWR]

....only thing is you can get it "flipped" look for the teeth marks on the plate, will show you what sprocket was where....QUOTE]

This is the most common mistake iv'e seen people do when puttin everything back together, especially when they have a new one..

 

[Grimis]

yeah, what i do now is mark it "front" "back" i have a spare that is cleaned up and i marked it after words.

 

[TuRBoTaLooN]

yeah, what i do now is mark it "front" "back" i have a spare that is cleaned up and i marked it after words.

You're talking about the plate that goes between the two sprockets on the crankshaft, right? If so, I know one side is concave (inward) and one side is convex (outward). Does anybody remember which side goes toward the block, and which side away from the block?

 

[Grimis]

You're talking about the plate that goes between the two sprockets on the crankshaft, right? If so, I know one side is concave (inward) and one side is convex (outward). Does anybody remember which side goes toward the block, and which side away from the block?

based on the one i have in my hand, the "Bump""outward" faces you (looking at the engine) i forgot i had 3 of them and just found this one dont know where it came from.... as its done like that to fit the BS Sprocket's raised area in the center.

 

[TuRBoTaLooN]

based on the one i have in my hand, the "Bump""outward" faces you (looking at the engine) i forgot i had 3 of them and just found this one dont know where it came from.... as its done like that to fit the BS Sprocket's raised area in the center.

Thanks a bunch dude! Let's see what happens on Friday.

 

[Grimis]

no problem

 

[TuRBoTaLooN]

So just some other thoughts I've had this week....

When I go to put the sprockets and plate on the motor while the head is already on, I'm worried about the crank slipping and a piston bending a nice new valve. Should I just take the head off again?

How should the cams be lined up before I do the timing? I'm worried about turning a cam or the crank and piston meets valve.

 

[TuRBoTaLooN]

So I meant to get a lot done today, but that didn't quite happen. I thought I had the cam gears on the wrong cams, so i took them off, but then realized I had them on right, so I put them back on. I loosened the cam caps so I don't bend a valve if I move the crank.

I tried putting the crank sprockets and plate on again, but yet again it wouldn't sit flush and the crank wouldn't turn with them on, so I took it off again and got frustrated.

So I put the oil strainer on. At least one thing went right.

Then I found this little half moon metal piece on the floor. I couldn't figure out where the fudge it went. Then I looked at the area where the sprockets go over the crank, and right next to where the OFH goes (circled in red in the below pics), and realized it was "attached" to the block there!?? That was what prevented the balance shaft sprocket to go over the crank and sit flush with the block. It seemed to just be glued on though?? Then I re-read my buddy's build post and noticed that his crankshaft had a notch protruding from the crankshaft where the sprockets and crank trigger plate line up with their notches. My crankshaft has that notch, but instead of poking out, it is inverted? In other words there is no way to line up the sprockets and plate because there is no protruding notch to line everything up with?

So anyway I attempted to line everything up the best I could and put in the crank bolt. At least the crank turns freely now. So I decided I need to figure out what's going on before I do any more work, plus I was having a hell of a time getting the old gasket off my OFH. I got frustrated and called it a day. Plus it was like thundering and lightning and just depressing out. But when I got home it was like perfectly sunny and warm. FAIL.

Here's some shots of the half moon piece I'm talking about:

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Here's where it was on the block:

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My slow slow mess of an engine build:

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[Grimis]

that half moon looks the like the crank key...

 

[TuRBoTaLooN]

that half moon looks the like the crank key...

What is the crank key? What does it do?

 

[b00stedAWD]

What is the crank key? What does it do?

It keeps your crank sprocket from spinning freely.

 

[TuRBoTaLooN]

It keeps your crank sprocket from spinning freely.

So in other words, that was supposed to be on the crankshaft itself? How do I get it back on? Ugh...

 

[b00stedAWD]

Once you remove your sprocket, you'll see a notch where this key can be inserted. Make sure rounded side goes into the groove. Then slide your sprocket through the key where the slit is on the sprocket.

 

[TuRBoTaLooN]

Once you remove your sprocket, you'll see a notch where this key can be inserted. Make sure rounded side goes into the groove. Then slide your sprocket through the key where the slit is on the sprocket.

Hahaha, a-duh....I'm slow. I have no idea why I didn't figure that one out. Thanks!!!

 

[blcknspo0ln]

Hahaha, a-duh....I'm slow. I have no idea why I didn't figure that one out. Thanks!!!

funky, so 7 bolts DO use woodruff keys!

 

[TuRBoTaLooN]

funky, so 7 bolts DO use woodruff keys!

How many times do I need to tell you it's not a 7 bolt! It's a 6 bolt bottom end with a 7 bolt cylinder head.

 

[b00stedAWD]

It doesn't matter if it's 7 or 6 bolt.

 

[blcknspo0ln]

How many times do I need to tell you it's not a 7 bolt! It's a 6 bolt bottom end with a 7 bolt cylinder head.

hah, I suck. I still can't remember for the life of me ever remember when I've ever seen that key actually come out of a crank

 

[TuRBoTaLooN]

hah, I suck. I still can't remember for the life of me ever remember when I've ever seen that key actually come out of a crank

Yea...I thought it was part of the crank itself, not something that was removeable. The weirdest thing was that the key was semi-glued to the block nearby. Oh well. Got some new shiny bolts, new OEM waterpump and gasket. Looks like I'm ready to attack it again whenever I find free time.

 

[TuRBoTaLooN]

Just thought I'd post an update with some questions and comments...

So today I finally tackled the timing belt stuff. Kyle and I threw on the intake manifold with a magnus heat barrier gasket, and bolted up the exhaust manifold.

I totally forgot about modifying the 2g motor mount to fit over the 1g water pump. So I spent some time cutting and grinding, went through like 5 discs, broke my dremel (overheated), but finally got it to fit and then later found out my dremel works fine now. So I bolted the motor mount on, put the tensioner arm on, bolted on the auto tensioner (grenade pin still in), hand tightened the timing tensioner pulley, and then bolted on the idler pulley to 35 ft/lb. I basically used Tom's thread, VFAQ, and the Chilton manual as references to get the timing belt on and I think I did pretty well. I zip tied the belt to the intake cam, and then rotated the exhaust gear to be parallel with the intake cam and the head. So then I zip tied the belt on the exhaust gear. Kyle had left for work, so my mom helped me hold the cam gears in place as I looped the belt around. I worked it through the oil pump gear tightly, then around the crank gear, back around the tensioner pulley and finished around the bottom of the exhaust gear. The oil pump and crank sprocket were lined up with the timing marks pretty much near perfectly and the cams wer in sync.

I didn't have the special pulley tool to tighten the belt, but after speaking with Tom, I made due with an alley key and a 14mm socket and ratchet. I used the allen key to get it where the auto tensioner grenade pin was just about loose, then I hand tightened the bolt. I checked the gap with drill bits (as per Tom's thread) and it seemd ok, so I torque'd it to 35 ft/lb. I checked the gap again and it seemed good. The smaller drill bit (forgot the sizes, but I checked against Tom's thread for specs) fit through fine, and the bigger one didn't fit in, so I assumed all was well. Then I rotated the crank 6 full revolutions (well the cams went 6 full revolutions, which is what i thought they meant, right?) I started turning and it was kinda stuck, but I kept pushing, then I heard a SNAP! I almost crapped myself, but then realized I never took off the zip ties, so one popped off! Hahaha. I took the other one off and continued my rotations. It went pretty smoothly and the timing marks lined up as they were supposed to. I checked the gap again and it was fine so I called it a day. I will check the gap again next time I get to working on it to make sure it's still ok.

I'm still super nervous that I may have screwed something up. I'm just worried I will go to start the car and it will just take a shit and I'm out all this money and time.

Questions:
Should I take the grenade pin out now?
When should I put in some oil and check for leaks?
Is there anything else I can do to make sure I didn't fudge up something important?

Next up:
Power steering bracket, pump, and pulley
Alternator and pulley
Water pump pulley
Crank pulley
Belts
A/C bracket (yup...still got ac bitches )
Timing covers
Knock sensor
Clutch & trans
Drop that bi*** back in!!

Then all I have to do is put in new poly bushings in the front suspension (have yet to purchase), fix all the ball joints I fubared taking it apart, and source a new pass side wheel bearing and knuckle so I can get the car on the ground again. Then it's just bolting everything back up, connecting wires and vacuum hoses and praying this shit works.

Finally, pictures...

Yesterday:

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Today:

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[TuRBoTaLooN]

As per normal DSM luck, shit hit the fan today. I was hoping to prime the oil pump, find no leaks, and get her ready to drop in. Of course that couldn't happen....

First of all I totally forgot to put the grenade pin back in the auto tensioner before I loosened the belt to get it off the crank and oil pump. So that's my first problem. I have no idea how to push it back in. Anyone?

So then I said #### it, I'll just spin the oil pump and see what happens. I used an air ratchet since my drill didn't have something I could use to spin the oil pump. The air ratchet didn't spin too fast and I saw no oil up in the head, so i went to my trusty impact gun. As soon as I started spinning I saw fresh oil coming out the oil filter housing. Silly me forgot to plug a hole....not to mention I can't find my oil pressure sensor....

So I plugged it with a bolt and some teflon tape. Went at it again and nothing came out the OFH. However, oil started POURING out the other side of the motor. Looks like there is a small spot between the oil pan and the rear main seal plate that didn't seal correctly. So I'm going to drop the oil pan, scrape off the great stuff and re do it. Only thing is I need an extra set of hands to help me spin the motor upside down on the stand. That shit is mad heavy now with everything on it and I wasn't about to disassemble the whole thing again.

So please guys, suggstions on how to fix the auto tensioner and/or oil pan seal?? Thanks...