Rebuild time 4G63 or 4G64

[talonted_one]

OK...I just recently spun a rod bearing and of course I have to rebuild. My question is as follows: Should I go to a 6 bolt 4G64 or should I go to a 6 bolt 4G63.

I know the 4G64 isn't proven but hey it has to be at least as good as the 4G63. I have heard some of the pros and cons to the '64 swap...any sugestions or comments?

 

[Ricardo]

i don't think anyone has brought this before but i think the space on the engine bay of the eclipse is already super small and putting a bigger engine there (even if its just a little bit) could make things even worse for you. But then again I have never seen a 2.4L and I don't know the difference...

 

[91vr4evolution]

If you're not trying to set the fastest 1/4 mile time, or road race, and you're not even thrashing it on the freeway/street, then I personally think the 2.4 is a good choice. Don't think of it in terms of hp/revs, think of the TORQUE!! I don't know what the redline of a 4g64 is, but for street driving it should have enough revs. Just watch out for the driveline! As sophat32 said, all you're doing is sticking better rods, better pistons, and a good head on an existing motor. That's always been a good thing in my book!

Mike.

 

[talonted_one]

well supposedly some have seen as high as a 7500rpm redline...if that is the case I can live with it because I really dont want to rev that hi. That scares me.

 

[talonted_one]

Originally posted by Ricardo
i don't think anyone has brought this before but i think the space on the engine bay of the eclipse is already super small and putting a bigger engine there (even if its just a little bit) could make things even worse for you. But then again I have never seen a 2.4L and I don't know the difference...

the only external differences in the 4g64 block and a 4g63 block is a 6mm height difference. everything else is the same

 

[Ricardo]

Originally posted by talonted_one


the only external differences in the 4g64 block and a 4g63 block is a 6mm height difference. everything else is the same

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[talonted_one]

wow my poll is 50/50 ...i thought it would help me out.

 

[gst_spyder]

A properly built 6 bolt g64b will rev to 8500 no problem. I would advise against just putting the 64 crank in a 63 block though if your going to do it do it right and just rebuild a 6 bolt g64b shortblock.

Mario

 

[sophat34]

I talk to marco at magnus quit aoften. he has his rev limiter set at 8k rpms, they have reved theres to 9k. the car has run low 10's shifting at 6500. I dont think that rpms will be a problem. you do have to run it with the timing belt cover off in order for it to fit. its just barly touching the hood if you leave it on. I am the machine shop tells me that theyll have my block ready to go in a few weeks, I'll let you know my opinion on which is better after I get it done. I am only running a super20g so I dont expect to make too much power, just more power sooner.

one more thing for those that dont get it yet. in a 4g64 block with a 4g63 head the red line is not hindered. it is the same ratio and rod angles the engine was made with. the only differnce is the piston is dished and valve relifes are cut in. the piston work is nessisary becasue the compression was not favorable to run a turbo, and the motor was designed with a sohc head, only 2 valves per cylinder.

 

[talonted_one]

well I wish things werent like this but...money is an issue here. I have been combing the internet looking for sources of parts that wont put me under. Time is also an issue since this is my only car. If there were a sperm bank in this town I would be a regular to get this d@## car running again.


so far I think I can get all parts excluding the bolt 4g63 for about 1500 bux.

eagle rods
JE pistons
crank
bearings
rings and pins
thrush washer
gasket set

 

[greathuskie]

i myself am going with a 4g64, but im not sure on one thing

are the 4g64's prone to crankwalk like the 2g 4g63? because if so i can get the 6 bolt 4g64 (forgot the name of it)

 

[talonted_one]

well everyone ...I have decided to go with the 4g64, I'm just not going to build it like I was going to. I will keep everyone posted on how it goes.

from what I hear any car with a crank can get crankwalk ;however, I have nener heard a 4g64 6 bolt having it...sound familiar?

 

[greathuskie]

im getting a 4g64 out of a 95-99 spyder

i hope it has the same mounting points and wiring harness....

 

[allwheelTSI]

Originally posted by greathuskie
im getting a 4g64 out of a 95-99 spyder

i hope it has the same mounting points and wiring harness....

it will all bolt up,as stated before,block dimmensions are the same with the the exception of deck height because of the 100mm stroke as opposed to our 4g63s with an 88mm stroke. if you're putting the 4g63 topend on it,everything will plug in.

 

[Nomad666]

Can i get the 4G64 crank with rod and main bearings and put it into a 1G 4G63T with 2G pistons? What else would i need? And what are the advantages and disadvantages of this? THANX

 

[greathuskie]

thats the only thing i was worried about

now im worried about remembering where to put half of my bolts! i didnt mark every bolt, probably half or so, and now im hopefully not gonna get stuck

 

[allwheelTSI]

from what was said it seem that using the 4g64 crank in the 4g63 block dose'nt hold up very well beacause of some crazy rod angles its to hard on the motor for a daily driver.

the best idea would be to put the 4g63 head on the 4g64 engine,add some turbo compatible pistons and a set of rods and all the 4g63 turbo components,you've got one helluva street motor if you ask me,redline is 7000-7500 so you shift at 6k if you're gonna race or whatever. very quick turbo spool up on a mid size street turbo like the L2R(turbo of choice when i have the money) with lots of porting,it'll be good for around 450whp or well thats my only goal. thats what i'll be building for my next AWD project once i finish the laser.

 

[Hobbes =^.^=]

Also keep in mind that you'll need a tranny that can take the abuse of a stroker engine. I was going to go the stroker route as well, but everyone kept telling me I was going to break trannies, and that it would not be good for daily driving. I then went the good ol 6-bolt route.

 

[allwheelTSI]

Originally posted by Hobbes =^.^=
Also keep in mind that you'll need a tranny that can take the abuse of a stroker engine. I was going to go the stroker route as well, but everyone kept telling me I was going to break trannies, and that it would not be good for daily driving. I then went the good ol 6-bolt route.

yeah,but thats only dependant upon how you tune it and build it,with 300ft/lb. (on a 2.4 mildly modded, wich would be sweet for a daily driver) of TQ, i would'nt expect it to break any more trannies than a 400+hp 4g63. a well built and well shifted transmission will put up with ALOT,our trannies are'nt as bad as everyone thinks.

 

[Nomad666]

Originally posted by allwheelTSI
from what was said it seem that using the 4g64 crank in the 4g63 block dose'nt hold up very well beacause of some crazy rod angles its to hard on the motor for a daily driver.

the best idea would be to put the 4g63 head on the 4g64 engine,add some turbo compatible pistons and a set of rods and all the 4g63 turbo components,you've got one helluva street motor if you ask me,redline is 7000-7500 so you shift at 6k if you're gonna race or whatever. very quick turbo spool up on a mid size street turbo like the L2R(turbo of choice when i have the money) with lots of porting,it'll be good for around 450whp or well thats my only goal. thats what i'll be building for my next AWD project once i finish the laser.

So if I can get my hands on a 4G64 shortblock, crank, rods and 2G piston i should do fine right? Oh and one more thing im on a budget so after I buy those 2 i won't be able to buy a bigger turbo; how would my 14b(ported) perform on this engine. (mods include:full 3'' exhuast, 2G mas, intake, boost controler and a super AFC)

 

[allwheelTSI]

Originally posted by Nomad666



So if I can get my hands on a 4G64 shortblock, crank, rods and 2G piston i should do fine right? Oh and one more thing im on a budget so after I buy those 2 i won't be able to buy a bigger turbo; how would my 14b(ported) perform on this engine. (mods include:full 3'' exhuast, 2G mas, intake, boost controler and a super AFC)

the 2g pistons won't work in the 4g64 because the bore on it is 86.5mm and the 2g pistons are for the 4g63 with an 85mm bore,i'd suggest a set of JEs or other aftermarket compnay that has a specific application for the 4g64 you also would need a good set of rods for the 4g64.

the 14b would work just fine with the 2.4,and it'll be boosting at like 2k.

 

[16g-95gsx]

Here's my take on the whole swap:

go with the 4G64 block on a 4g63 head.

1) the block wont crankwalk
2) Per mod, there will be more power, no replacement for displacement
3) As mentioned it will spool a 16g like it was a damn T25. I have heard reports of 20g's spooling fully by 3000rpms, so imagine an L2R, it would spool as good if not better than a 14b
4) Torque, yes it can destroy, but it's also the one thing you feel when you floor the car, or I guess if you pull tractors for some damn reason

The swap really doesnt cost much more at all than the 4g63 would cost to build up, so why the hell wouldnt you go with the extra displacement. I have been talking to a local guy who is performing the swap, and has most parts in hand, and he believes the block could even be bored out slightly more and possibly hit the 2.5L mark. Also it appears that the forged pistons for the PT Cruiser Turbo, will work, as they have an 86mm bore if I'm not mistaken (2.4L turbo engine . This is I believe what he is using (J&E PT Turbo pistons). Then just get some nice eagle rods or hell even crower, and then it's almost the same as a regular 63 build up. There is some slight modification that needs to be done to the block, and from memory I dont believe it has oil squirters, but it really isnt that much different.

So to sum it up:

More torque
No crankwalk
Fully built motor for same cost
And rediculous spool up time

So tell me again, why, if you can take a turbo that would be considered a high lag turbo on our motor, and make it spool up at say 3000rpm or so, this motor isnt streetable? It just seems to me that if people are revving to 7k without a problem, and you are able to make extremely large turbo spool up like a street turbo, with all the other benefits, that this is exactly the opposite of what many of you guys are saying: This IS the ideal street setup.

Why stay with the 63 if you are aiming for even 400whp? If you are building a block, it's a far easier route and will be much more streetable to have the extra displacement, and on top of that you'll have much much more torque.

Go with the 64 man, and get absolutely all the info you can before you go buying parts as its not an inexpensive decision you can just quickly make, but I think you'll be happier with 64.