PTE 680s, 190lph, and SAFC2 = lean...

[ArmyGSX]

This is my first time posting a question on the forums... Searched for an answer and came up empty handed.

Mod list is up to date.

Background: Have a SAFC2 installed and works as its meant to with stock injectors/fuel pump. If I pulled % from the HI throttle points it would pull fuel and everything was/is hooked up right. Used it to lean out the stock A/F ratio a bit. With all the fun 450cc injectors can give me I wanted more...

Installed E316g and all was fine. Could boost and hold 15psi @ 11.2~11.4 A/F on my wideband.

So I bought a set of PTE 680s and a 190lph pump off of the classifieds here.
I figured with that fuel setup I would be able to run 20~25ish PSI and not have any fuel issues at all. Well to my dismay it runs leaner then with the 450 and stock pump. I have tried everything that I know how to do to eliminate the problem. I replaced the stock pump thinking the pump I got off of the classifieds was not the correct fit (its a Walbro 190 for a mustang). Thinking it was loosing pressure due to it not fitting 100% correctly. That made no change. Reinstalled the 190 and "fixed" the fitment issue with a few O-rings under the little plastic spacer thing.. No change.

I reset the SAFC2 and went through all of the settings again. If I take % away to the recommended 35% for the 680s it runs 16~17 on the wideband @ WOT... Even at 0% across the NE points it will run 10.0 until 3.5k rpms when it will shoot up to 13~14 and I let off the throttle.

Either I am over looking something or something is broken/not working as intended.

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!

 

[habitatguy187]

Well something's obviously not adding up right. Not for sure if it's the problem but is your fuel pump re-wired?

 

[ArmyGSX]

Yep, Re-wire was one of the first "mods" done to the car... This issue has had me confused all weekend.

 

[habitatguy187]

I think I'd throw the 450s back in if you still have them and see if you're having issues. If you aren't then you know that the new injectors are the problem. Thankfully changing injectors is a piece of cake on DSMs.

 

[ArmyGSX]

I am currently waiting on the engine to cool down. Would hate to spill fuel down the back of the block only for it to ignite on the down pipe... would turn a crappy weekend (in my car world ) to a crappy few months!

Other then faulty injectors could it be anything else?
Could the 190 have broke the stock FPR so it will not hold pressure anymore? As you can tell I'm lost and grasping at straws here.

 

[habitatguy187]

The 190 should be fine with the stock fpr. Many members including myself have ran a re-wired 190 on the stock fpr with no problems. It only makes sense to be the injectors or the fuel pump, since that's all you touched.

 

[ArmyGSX]

**UPDATE**

Re-installed stock injectors and its worse. It runs so lean at any % of throttle above 20%. Will pop and sputter and loose all power if held for longer then a second or so (as long as I am willing to allow it to). Even sputters free revving it all tho it only lasts for a quick second and then revs like normal. All settings on SAFC2 were zeroed out before the engine was turned over.

This has me lost beyond lost... I would have to say its a loss of fuel pressure.. What else could it be?

 

[sniver]

clogged fuel filter perhaps... maybe you sucked up something during the change over. Or when you took the lines off of the sending unit you kinked a line.

One of your new injectors are stuck open, and dumping fuel through,and damaging the sensor and the sensor feedback is 100% wrong.

Or you dislodged a wire for the safc during the course of doing your fuel system .. downgrade

Or you just have a horrible coincidence occurring. Sh!t like this does happen. check the wiring of the safc, voltage at the pump,and voltage at the pump(repeated for emphasis)

keep us updated

 

[BIRDCLAWTSi]

What are the part numbers on the injectors???

 

[habitatguy187]

This has me lost beyond lost... I would have to say its a loss of fuel pressure.

I was thinking this.

 

[ArmyGSX]

**Update**

Swapped out injectors to the stock ones and it seem to worsen the symptoms. Sputtering and what feels like misfires over 25% throttle.

Swapped the 680s back in and now anything over 15% throttle is same as above.

The problem seems to be getting worse.

Checked Voltage at fuel pump was @ 12.7 running and 11.5 while cranking. Seems good to me.

Re-checked all settings on SAFC2 and wires for it also. All checked out good...

So Its not the injectors or Fuel Pump..
Possible the FPR went out just because or am I missing something with the SAFC?
I looked up the SN on the injectors and they are infact 682cc injectors. The fuel pump also checked out (altho for a mustang heh)

 

[habitatguy187]

Stupid question, but you do have the vacuum hose on your afpr to your IM hooked up right?

 

[ArmyGSX]

Yea the hose is connected. I even looked it over for any cracks or tears in it.

 

[ArmyGSX]

**Update**

Added new Fuel Filter and miss/sputter is gone! WOT @ 14 or so PSI will run 10.9-11 A/F with -13% correction. Once turbo hits 4500 RPMS it starts to creep (Carbide burr should be here tomorrow to port the hot side). Once the boost starts creeping the A/F starts to climb until it shoots to 16~17 as boost hits around 20-21psi.

NE Points in SAFC2 are as follows,
Lo
-17 across the board. Cruising A/F is 14.7~15.1

Hi.
1000~4000rpm 4400~7400
___-13%_________0%

Seems no matter what I do it will run lean once boost starts to climb. I figured 680s could max out a E316g with less then 80% IDC.

Could this still be a pressure issue?

 

[Clinical]

Yes, I'm just going to go ahead and suggest getting an FPR.. you might end up getting one some day anyway.

Something definitely isn't right.

I was running 22psi on my 20g in my talon, running a 11.0-11.1 a/f. My fuel setup was Walbro 255, Aeromotive FPR, 80% duty cycle on 650cc FIC injectors, and that was with low/base fuel pressure setting on the FPR. I was tuning it on DSMLink but it shouldn't make a difference.

You should be plenty fine on your injectors on that 16g.

Something definitely right. I know people say 190's are good on the stock FPR's - but it still could of been old just waiting for something to finish it off.

I'd say replace it, if it fixes it cool - if not, oh well its nice to have one either way.. especially if you ever go further.

 

[habitatguy187]

Something's definitely wrong still. You should be pulling out around 34% of fuel across the board and them some during WOT. It's either a fuel pressure issue or a fuel injector/power to fuel injector issue. Next thing I'd do is try to borrow an afpr or go rent a fuel pressure gauge from autozone (I think they have them for rent)

 

[ArmyGSX]

**Resolved**

Come to find out it was the 0-ring. Seems the walbro's neck that the o-ring goes on is a bit smaller in diameter then the stock one. That caused the o-ring to leak out the pressure.

Now I am pulling 13% fuel off all of the high throttle Ne points. Still need to zero it in with a friend watching A/F ~ RPMs, hes my logger, hey ITS FREE

Its sitting at 10.9-11.2 Wot all the way through third @ 25psi.

And I had NO idea a E316g hit that hard after 20psi...

Thanks to everyone who offered up advice and helped.