propane...

[Imp Pwr Online]

Originally posted by 95GSXracer
It took my like 30 minutes to read through this whole thread, ... Just a few quick points I havent heard mentioned yet.

When using water injection, you are displacing combustable mixture with water. So at some point of adding more water you reach a point of diminishing return. I think Propanes main advantage is that you are not displacing fuel with water, but with another fuel.

Turbo Diesels have been using propane injection for a long time now. Its been around a while and is proven. They dont make 1000 ft/lbs out of those motors by eating wheaties everyday Propane injection is good stuff. The more data I see for DSMs the happier I will be. I plan to try this out at some point.

what he said

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

Seriously I'm going to post pics tonight.

Chris I've decided to pull and built the whole head so it will be at least a month or 2 before the propane it on.

 

[deth2u]

Alright may i nazi you guys with a few stupid questions?

I'm wondering: First, how does the propane get "injected" into the engine? through the throttle body/intake manifold? If so how is it controlled? If you change from WOT to 50% throttle or 0% throttle the propane will always be flowing, so wouldn't it create a over-rich condition? Will my car smell like a 40mph wienie roast BBQ?

I understand the principle of the system is to provide even greater resistance to knock so boost and compression can be increased, but is there any way to control the flow of it say when you switch gears or blow off and the feul keeps flowin? (other than shutting it off)

Thanks guys

 

[16g-95gsx]

Originally posted by eyebrowski
i have been running propane for a while now and posted in a review at dsmtalk. it would be worth your while to read through it...i have provided some numbers. http://www.dsmtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=65627&perpage=25&pagenumber=3

(same screen name)
feel free to email or PM me with any questions, i am pretty familiar with this thing by now.

Yea I've already read your posts over on DSMtalk, I think I posted a reply over there to the results. They appear very nice especially for the turbo and fuel and IC you are running

 

[eyebrowski]

Originally posted by deth2u
Alright may i nazi you guys with a few stupid questions?

I'm wondering: First, how does the propane get "injected" into the engine? through the throttle body/intake manifold? If so how is it controlled? If you change from WOT to 50% throttle or 0% throttle the propane will always be flowing, so wouldn't it create a over-rich condition? Will my car smell like a 40mph wienie roast BBQ?

I understand the principle of the system is to provide even greater resistance to knock so boost and compression can be increased, but is there any way to control the flow of it say when you switch gears or blow off and the feul keeps flowin? (other than shutting it off)

Thanks guys

it is injected at the TB elbow. it is not activated by tthrottle %, it is activated at a preset boost level. you can make throttle % adjustments with your AFC. i only got a propane smell when i was running overly rich, as soon as i lened it out the smell went away.
-Greg

 

[Kevin Jewer]

You can sdjust the flow of the propane with the 6 turn needle valve included in the kit You can also vary pressure, but thats not the ideal way to control flow. Choose flow based on the design of the injector/nozzle and the amount of boost in the IC pipe it has to overcome. I'm assuming IPO did that research when they came up with the 80 psi suggestion.

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

You want pics you got pics.

Regulator with 100psi gauge.

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Hobbs Pressure switch (very quality peice)

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All instructions wriring and tubing included in the kit (you only buy the tank)

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[DrZiplok]

While looking around for a compact, refillable propane tank that might fit under the rear of a 1G AWD (space between gas tank and fender looks appealing) I ran across this:

http://yarchive.net/car/rv/disposable_propane.html

Somewhat disturbing.

Back on the original subject; all the small refillable propane tanks I can find are quite rotund (eg. the previously-linked 4.25lb tank is 9.1" x 11") and there's really no room for them anywhere in the car (other than in the passenger space). Anyone found something with dimensions more like the disposables, but which could be securely mounted outside?

 

[RaysTsi]

Can anyone say "Spare tire well"
Would a tank fit in there, it pretty roomy.
I need an AFC!

 

[nitrouskris]

i run nitous at the track,but you use water injection around town. i got the kit from morales racing for $349.99

 

[AWDturboTSI]

This sounds like somthing id want to do in the near future. My goal is to run 20PSI at the track on my T25 with propane injection and tuning with dsmlink. I am running on stock injectors with a 190 fuel pump. I have a few questions. Is it even possible to run 20 PSI on a T25 with stock injectors? Also is it possible to turn off the propane and only run it when i want, like a ON\OFF switch. I know it is activated by when you hit a set boost and is off before that, but can it be shut off completly. With dsmlink you can create files, like you can tune for race gas and save those settings to a file. Then tune for pump gas and save that file, then you can upload any file and apply those setting when ever you want. So what i want to do is have one set of tuning for daily driving on pump gas and no propane then have one set for running with propane at the track. Is this possible??? I hope you guys can understand this mess haha i guess the 2 main question is can i run 20psi with a T25 on stock injectors and 190 pump with tuning.

Joe

 

[AWDturboTSI]

This sounds like somthing id want to do in the near future. My goal is to run 20PSI at the track on my T25 with propane injection and tuning with dsmlink. I am running on stock injectors with a 190 fuel pump. I have a few questions. Is it even possible to run 20 PSI on a T25 with stock injectors? Also is it possible to turn off the propane and only run it when i want, like a ON\OFF switch. I know it is activated by when you hit a set boost and is off before that, but can it be shut off completly. With dsmlink you can create files, like you can tune for race gas and save those settings to a file. Then tune for pump gas and save that file, then you can upload any file and apply those setting when ever you want. So what i want to do is have one set of tuning for daily driving on pump gas and no propane then have one set for running with propane at the track. Is this possible??? I hope you guys can understand this mess haha i guess the 2 main question is can i run 20psi with a T25 on stock injectors and 190 pump with tuning.

Joe

 

[Kevin Jewer]

The problem is you cant run 20 psi on a t25. Well after 6k rpm anyway. I used to run 22 psi on race gas, but it still fell to 15 by redline.

And yes, you can turn off the propane injection with a switch, just use it to cut the same line the Hobbs witch is on.

 

[Imp Pwr Online]

You could install a throttle switch so that propane won't come on unless you are WOT and at the set PSI.

You could go one step farther and install switches at the shifter so that it only comes on in ceratin gears.

 

[AWDturboTSI]

So then 20psi is possible on a T25? i plan on shifting around 6K anyway so dropping off at redline wouldn't be a problem, id shift before that happens. So can i run 20 psi on 450cc injectors and 190 fuel pump??

 

[DSMTommy]

I have an open atmosphere BOV. I was reading your site and noticed the warning. Is there a real threat with those BOV's of propane getting into the engine compartment? Would like to get a system, but a little weary on the BOV

 

[Culetto]

releasing a flamable gas into ANY enclosed space is a bad idea, from a different perspective i used to be on the fire dept, fire and ignition sources are funny things, you never know what could spark, even in a closet in your house, the lightswitch can spark behind the trim plate, now add a flamable liquid (ie gasoline, kerosene) and unless the fuel was close to the ignition source, nothing is going to happen, fill the same closet with propane and flip the switch, you better hope you have homeowners insurance and proximity turnouts on, but on the bright side you will know what the food on your grill feels like, under the hood of a car i dont know, it is vented well but given the funny nature of fire in general you should take every precaution

 

[DSMTommy]

I am also a firefighter and understand that completely. I was just wondering how much wasted propane there actually was left, that may make it's way out the BOV. I have a 13 vent hood on my talon and was just wondering how much is enough to worry about?

 

[Imp Pwr Online]

For liability purposes of course we have to state to use a Closed BOV. We on the other had have been using an OPEN Apex-i twin chamber for 7 months with propane and I drive like I stole it always on the propane and i never once smelled propane.

But you "Should" use a Closed BOV

We are no "Testing" the Disposable Propane tank system. You know, the small 16oz bottles you can buy in the camp section of any target. Extra small, fit anywhere, and swap out anytime of the day anywhere. No need to find that fillup station at 11pm.

More to come later, keep an eye on our website.

And as for safety, not that they are 100% but hey, it is a smaller tank so if something were to happen, and the tank would rupture (not going to happen on big or small tanks but) it is less propane to escape. It is also easier to mount OUTSIDE of the vehicle or to build a nice small protective box around.

 

[Imp Pwr Online]

Here are better pics of the system. We have updated it in the last few months. You will see that Main Relay harness looks better now with a Prewired socket and Heat shrink Tubing.

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[DrZiplok]

Originally posted by AWDturboTSI
So then 20psi is possible on a T25? i plan on shifting around 6K anyway so dropping off at redline wouldn't be a problem, id shift before that happens. So can i run 20 psi on 450cc injectors and 190 fuel pump??

You could, but you'd probably have so much knock that it wouldn't be worth it.

The stock injectors aren't good for much more than stock boost/flow; if you want to turn it up, you're going to have to spend on the parts. Face the facts and get started saving. 8)

 

[Novec64]

Back from the dead. Possibly the oldest resurrection from this site.

Propane is common with off-roaders. Gotpropane.com sells full conversions for anything and draw though/blow through turbo setups are common.

Hybrids suck for multiple reasons, but tuning them is catching on. Propane is high octane(110+)/green/easy to tune. Why doesn't anyone shut the tree-huggers up since this stuff is beneficial as far as emissions, weight, complexity, price, and octane? A reasonably priced, green, fast, home built car seems reasonable.

I haven't heard of anyone other than off-roaders using LPG (Liquefied Propane Gas), but it is easy to tune. Maybe DSMers can be the first to take advantage this. Why not?

Let's tell NEDRA to shove it. Where's all the electricity for these fully electric cars going to come from anyway? We already don't know what to do with our nuclear waste build up.

Pirate4x4.com (Give these guys a chance they're the biggest offroad site around, they're as tech hardcore as forums come, and they're all about custom fabrication.)

E85/98 is king right now, but has anyone else even heard of LPG conversions recently? What are the benefits of LPG vs Ethanol? I'm researching myself, but what the hell? Why not share my thoughts on DSMtuners so maybe we can all be ahead of the curve on this one?

Relevent Links (I will update):

2010 Ford Transit connect available in LPG

 

[Novec64]

Just to clarify, I meant a full conversion. I know this thread is just about injection(like meth,) but it has a good bit of info in it.

 

[95gsttsi]

wheres the sites that sell them for 4g63? ### all ive ever seen is carborated engines equipped with propane...