Please view this HELP!!!

[Tigerhorns]

I have posted recently on the same topic, but i want to change my story last night i drove it a little bit.

I noticed the car likes to idle in park at like 500 - 400 rpms and stalls out quite a bit. When the car is in drive it idles at around 900. I allso noticed when i give the car gas and let off to come to a stop it will idle around the 500-400 idle and try to stall out.

I recently installed some 550 injectors, 2g MAS, 190 Fuel pump, and a boost controler. I have a SAFC im just a dsm newbie, and im scared of messing something up though i have been showing myself im not as stupid as i think here lately with the car.

Allso the guy who i had do all the work on my car saw my BOV wasnt even hooked up, and he said i had a non turbo air intake manifold, so he had to do some kind of Teeing off of another vacum source if you would like to see what i am talking about i have a picture of under the hood look to the top left of the valve cover. its connected where u can see there with a double sided nipple plastic thing . then that runs over near the throttle body air intake manifold for a tee, could that be my problem?

 

[92AWDHX40]

a non turbo can be used got a picture.

 

[awddarrell]

where is your BOV it looks like someone just put a rubber hose on there and took the BOV out just looking at your pic's

 

[dyetrying91]

Is your blow off valve (whether it's there or not) recirculated into the intake?

 

[2gdsm_nc]

Looks like that is your problem your venting to atmosphere. rather than recirculating it like you should be.

 

[yApples]

eeek

but it sounds like this may be you

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

Holy jesus. Post a picture of this gnarly engine bay. I can only imagine what i will see.

 

[rock1t]

Is your blow off valve (whether it's there or not) recirculated into the intake?

You don't have to recirculate. I rocked open atmosphere venting for a long time, using a SAFC, 560s, and a 2g mas. never once did i have any idle issues. or any other issue's people seem to have.

although with the safc, i would constantly adjust it because your ecu will learn you are tricking your mas signal.

 

[BrokenTsi]

You have a vacuum leak somewhere in combination with BOV venting and SAFC settings.

 

[rock1t]

vacuum for sure. unless he has some buck wild cams in there.

 

[Tigerhorns]

Well today i gave it a shot, and changed the spark plugs, and PCV valve. Soon as i replaced that the car idled perfect ran nice, and strong ( I did not turn the boost up, because im a little afraid of it going back to poop. I found that the BOV is being tee off of the PCV, and the other line goes somewhere else didnt really look where it went.

I was wondering i have 400 bucks to just play with right now what direction you think i should go with that cash.

Allso when i drove it today after putting the new plugs, and PCV in it droe good pulled hard, but it started maybe 2-3 times while punching it but then it just kept pulling. What kind of plug wires are good for this car aswell

The BOV is right under the Boost controler it's hooked up, and works

 

[rock1t]

save it for a proper tuning setup.

eg, dsmlink.

 

[1997_GSX]

BOV needs recirculated run a hose from the bov to the capped off part of your 2g air intake.

 

[Tigerhorns]

I mean do you think i should sell my SAFC, and just keep the car sitting in ky garage ><

Can someone explain to me why i need to recirculate this i thought that was a 2g thing. im just not really catching on to this recirculating

What should i get next some 8.5 plug wires, or maybe a upper innercooler pipe. wideband?

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

Research 1g jackal on google.

 

[1997_GSX]

I mean do you think i should sell my SAFC, and just keep the car sitting in ky garage ><

Can someone explain to me why i need to recirculate this i thought that was a 2g thing. im just not really catching on to this recirculating

What should i get next some 8.5 plug wires, or maybe a upper innercooler pipe. wideband?

Any car with a MAS before the turbo requires the discharged air to reenter between the mas and the turbo.


I would get the recirulation hose and a wideband.

 

[WickedQuikAWD]

Any car with a MAS before the turbo requires the discharged air to reenter between the mas and the turbo.


I would get the recirculation hose and a wideband.

The MAS or MAF sensor measures the amount of air that is being sucked into the engine and that data is used in conjunction with data from the other sensors to determine the amount of fuel needed to reach the desired AFR (air fuel ratio) for the engine to run properly. Once the air has flowed through the MAF it has already been accounted for by the engine computer and the subsequent amount of fuel has also been supplied. when venting to atmosphere, the already metered air is now leaving the system and the computer has no way of knowing this air is gone. As i understand it, the engine will run rich (too much fuel) as a result. This causes stumbling and hesitation and can lead to fouled spark plugs and a host of other tuning and operational problems. When the air is recirculated, there is no loss of metered air so the engine computer functions as it was designed. In speed density equipped engines this is not a problem as the engine computer has another sensor to verify the amount of air in the system so it can reach the target AFRs, hence the benefit of using a speed density setup.

Another situation that is common among turbocharged MAF/MAS equipped vehicles occurs when IC piping blows off as a result of a loose fitting or high boost levels. When the intercooler piping blows off, unmetered air enters the engine through the open piping, bypassing the MAF. The engine proceeds to stumble and often stalls because the engine computer sees little to no airflow across the MAF and as a result supplies minimal amounts of fuel. This situation sheds light on the why BOV recirc is necessary unless the engine is tuned for an atmospheric BOV setup. Venting to atmosphere on an engine that is not setup for it is simply a lesser version of the situation caused by a disconnected IC pipe. Simply put, if you want your engine to run properly, instead of just sounding cool when the BOV vents, you will recirculate the BOV until such time as you have modified and tuned the engine for atmospheric BOV.

1997_GSX is right to say that a Wideband O2 sensor is also a very good tool to have to monitor and tune your car throughout the modification and operational life of the engine. The wideband o2 sensor shows real time AFRs so you can see if your car is running lean or rich at any given time. It is also a vital tuning tool that most reputable tuners will not tune a car without. Target safe AFRs generally accepted in turbo cars is around 11.5 to 1. Naturally aspirated engines and turbo engines in a very high state of tune can safely approach 12.5/13 AFRs... but that is all dependent on a wide range of variables including the octane of the fuel used. There a wide range of Wideband O2 sensors on the market and they can be used independently or can be hooked into the EMS in some situations for better engine control. It is likely one of the best investments you can make into you car and will prove useful constantly. It will also help in safely using the SAFC to improve your cars performance. Hopefully this explains some of your questions. Feel free to ask any others you might have. This community is an invaluable resource.

 

[Tigerhorns]

Yesterday i replaced the PCV valve (the little ball inside wouldnt even hardly move) along with the spark plugs i put NGK platiums in the car (old plugs were burnt black) drove the car after that idle very nice no surging idles didnt hesitate when i took off, but when i floored the car it like stutters like maybe 2-3 times little stutters, but it just keeps pulling through it.

Where could i get a pipe to recirculate my BOV. I honestly didnt think it was that big of a deal . After i connect that pipe there isnt anything else i need to do after that is there?

and when i was getting my car worked on the guy said it had a non turbo air intake manifold is there any kind of difference between the non turbo, and the turbo manifold?

I just bought some NGK spark plug wires, and AEM Wideband digital be here by Thursday

 

[rock1t]

The MAS or MAF sensor measures the amount of air that is being sucked into the engine and that data is used in conjunction with data from the other sensors to determine the amount of fuel needed to reach the desired AFR (air fuel ratio) for the engine to run properly. Once the air has flowed through the MAF it has already been accounted for by the engine computer and the subsequent amount of fuel has also been supplied. when venting to atmosphere, the already metered air is now leaving the system and the computer has no way of knowing this air is gone. As i understand it, the engine will run rich (too much fuel) as a result. This causes stumbling and hesitation and can lead to fouled spark plugs and a host of other tuning and operational problems. When the air is recirculated, there is no loss of metered air so the engine computer functions as it was designed. In speed density equipped engines this is not a problem as the engine computer has another sensor to verify the amount of air in the system so it can reach the target AFRs, hence the benefit of using a speed density setup.

Another situation that is common among turbocharged MAF/MAS equipped vehicles occurs when IC piping blows off as a result of a loose fitting or high boost levels. When the intercooler piping blows off, unmetered air enters the engine through the open piping, bypassing the MAF. The engine proceeds to stumble and often stalls because the engine computer sees little to no airflow across the MAF and as a result supplies minimal amounts of fuel. This situation sheds light on the why BOV recirc is necessary unless the engine is tuned for an atmospheric BOV setup. Venting to atmosphere on an engine that is not setup for it is simply a lesser version of the situation caused by a disconnected IC pipe. Simply put, if you want your engine to run properly, instead of just sounding cool when the BOV vents, you will recirculate the BOV until such time as you have modified and tuned the engine for atmospheric BOV.

1997_GSX is right to say that a Wideband O2 sensor is also a very good tool to have to monitor and tune your car throughout the modification and operational life of the engine. The wideband o2 sensor shows real time AFRs so you can see if your car is running lean or rich at any given time. It is also a vital tuning tool that most reputable tuners will not tune a car without. Target safe AFRs generally accepted in turbo cars is around 11.5 to 1. Naturally aspirated engines and turbo engines in a very high state of tune can safely approach 12.5/13 AFRs... but that is all dependent on a wide range of variables including the octane of the fuel used. There a wide range of Wideband O2 sensors on the market and they can be used independently or can be hooked into the EMS in some situations for better engine control. It is likely one of the best investments you can make into you car and will prove useful constantly. It will also help in safely using the SAFC to improve your cars performance. Hopefully this explains some of your questions. Feel free to ask any others you might have. This community is an invaluable resource.

The SAFC tricks your MAS signal, and if tuned properly on the safc, you don't need to recirculate.

It is not required. The ECU will learn that you are tricking it's mas signal, which is why you will always have to play with the SAFC to keep it functioning properly.

The SAFC is a piggy back device that interprets your mas signal which will in return control your injector pulses for your larger injectors.

You don't have to recirculate your BOV.

 

[Tigerhorns]

Ya I tryed to go to the part store today, and see what i could rig up to make to recirculate the BOV, but i failed, and im probly just gunna leave it at that.

I drove the car today to the parts store drove fine the whole way there, but on the way home i just couldnt resist the urge to get on it. It builds boost i hear the turbo spoiling, but no matter how far i turn my boost controller up the boost will just remain the same. My old actuator was bad i replaced it. You think i should stop being such a cheap ace, and just go get a shop to blow a smoke machine in there?

Btw that stutter i was talking about a couple post up is gone. I forgot to gap the spark plugs

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

Get NGK plug wires. Cheap and they work really good.

 

[Tigerhorns]

Ya i bought NGK plug wires for 40 bucks from Modern Automotive Performance: Your source for turbocharged sport compact performance!