Please stop!

[na90dsm]

well said and i agree. i thought this was a comunity of people who shared a love for a certain car. all of us have the same car, some may have different motors, but we all share the same liking and love fo rthese cars.

everyone on here does nothign but argue lately and try to make the other seem less educated about the same thing. when i joined here it was abotu learning the right way about these motors and not abotu critisism or how much power your car makes. it was about the same thing that draws us all here today. actually 3 letters to be specific

 

[ShadowWulf]

this isnt another 420a vs 4g63 thread, those arguments are absolutely obsurd because theyre both proven to make good power and run good times. we're all dsm lovers, and lets not be as ignorant as the next guy and love even the NT dsm's. we're all part of a family, yet strangely divided by an engine code.

I LOVE YOU MAN!

 

[2fast420a]

yeah.. no real power can come from the 420a motor. its too weak and fragile. moron.


hmmm.. interesting.. im about to cross 400whp with my 420a and there are plenty of others that already have.

long live the 420a.

You make 335hp and run 14s which is quite far from over 400hp, and it took you over $15,000 to get there. With the money you have spent you could have built two 12 second 4Gs. The sad part is there are tons of guys on this board making 350 to 400hp on a stock 7 bolt that have not spent near as much as you. Also, show me 5 or more 420a guys with low 12 second timeslips.

On the flip side, I had a built 420a and I loved it. If that is the cards you are dealt then make the most hp you can with what you have. I sold mine because I can afford the insurance and I found a sweet deal on an awd. Even though my 420a made lots of power and was pretty fast I would still choose the 4G63 over the 420a just because of how easily the power can be made for less money than my 420a.

 

[2fast420a]

need i remind you the fastest street legal fwd 2g dsm is a 420a powered eclipse rs? stock head, stock cams. show me a 4g63 powered fwd that does that

When HRC runs his 10 second times there is nothing streetable about his car. Cheater slicks are track legal but not street legal. Bill Hahn represents the most that anyone has gotton from the 420a and he runs a 10.87 with a BIG shot of Nitrous and all the bells and whistles you can buy for the 420a. Kerry Runnou runs 10.46 with NO nitrous and Jeff Herrington runs 11.03 on a STOCK 7 bolt.

The 420a has more than proven it can hang in the upper half of the FWD DSM times. The problem is that if you want to make a point then you need to have more people than just Bill running good times with the 420a. I agree that people need to stop fighting over this crap because it's just talk. The only thing that is going to shut the 4G63 guys up is more 420a people making good times. Sitting around and bragging about potential is no way to gain bragging rights or respect.

 

[Defiant]

Nobody has brought up the insurance thing either, when I bought my 2GNT back in 98' I wanted to get another 4G63 but my insurance would of dropped me from my plan or charge me 300 a month If I had a 2G turbo. From that point on I ended up saving a average 100 a month just on insurance.

This is another serious problem. Have you told your insurance company you've turbocharged your car, so that they can re-work their actuarials and adjust your rates? Or do you find it better to simply defraud them? I hate the companies too, but you'll worse than hate them if you need their backup and their answer is "You deceived us, you're on your own".
Using a turbo'd 420A to lie to the insurance companies is not a good thing for anyone.

About the 17year old thing asking stupid questions, I understand what the MODS are saying. There should be a sticky on the top of the forum that cleary states what you have to do your car in order to make HP if you want to turbo you car and what to expect...

It would be if people would read them. But we already have ignored FAQs, a whole Tech section, the Upgrade Paths, unused SEARCH, and even today, a "Which BOV?" question in the Advanced Tuning forum.

We're trying to herd cats here.

 

[Defiant]

And when someone in a 4G63 car rolls up to what they think is a regular old N/T car and gets wasted, that my friends is cool.

I disagree, naturally. It's just being a jerk. It's not racing if there's no race. And on the streets, it's stupid besides.

 

[Denji]

I would post and say my opinion, but already sold my 420a and bought a 2g awd, i think that pretty much speaks for itself. Almost a direct trade (had to put down 500 extra) and i got a fully loaded vehicle. Thats 500 bucks for turbo, all wheel drive, and power everything. My insurance went up 10 bucks a month. Dear lord did i try to make that 420a fast. All the bolt-ons just dont compare to the factory 2g turbo. THANKS TO ALL YOU GUYS FOR TELLING ME TO SELL MY CAR AND GET A 4G63! IT WAS THE BEST AND MOST PRACTICAL ADVICE I HAVE GOT ON DSMTUNERS TO THIS DAY.

 

[Catbox_95]

I disagree, naturally. It's just being a jerk. It's not racing if there's no race. And on the streets, it's stupid besides.

How can you say that wasting someone in an N/T car with a turbo is being a jerk? And yes, it IS racing. I didn't say anything about street racing. If I owned an N/T and was at the track one night, and someone with a 4G63 wanted to race me thinking he owned me, and I wasted him, ... I'm a jerk? And that's not racing?

Then truly I am confused.

 

[green95hrcgs]

It all boils down to what you want. Not all 4G63 guys and gals are assholes, just the same as not all 420A guys and girls are asses. So dont get your feelings hurt when someone with a 4g63 tells you to sell it and buy a GSX if you ask the question of "what should I do?". Matter of fact, it is easier to go faster in a 4g63 than the 420A. I realize this after tons of money and headache's in my car. But, its all worth it to me to have something a tad different from the norm and thats all that matters to me.We are all a community of the same interests although not the same engines. There is no need to get into a civil war in these or any other forums that deal with the DSM cars.

I like any 4g63 as I do any other 420A.

 

[Denji]

But, its all worth it to me to have something a tad different from the norm and thats all that matters to me..

I understand that you feel that way, but I would have to say that this site is based on making your car fast the MOST effective way possible. Different isnt really what the concern is here. I understand how the 420a owners feel, i owned one and i loved that car. Trust me though, I didnt miss it for very long!

 

[green95hrcgs]

I am a 420A turbo guy:

Dont you all 420A and 4g63 owners realize that what we have is pretty much a civil war?

The 420A is a more difficult route to making big hp numbers. It is better ( read: EASIER )to make more hp with less "mod" money in a 4g63. But us 420A guys SAVE on insurance. Its all a game of what is better for you.

I realize that my car has given me many headaches and cost A LOT of money. It is MUCH faster and less reliable, but thats the price you pay with almost any heavily modded engine.

The only thing ( and this is personal ) that makes me appreciate the car and what I have done to it, is that it is diff from the norm. THAT'S ALL THAT MATTERS TO ME!!! I am very happy with my car and will continue to mod it.

So, if some 4g63 guy/gal comes and tells you to buy a GS-T or GSX and sell your car after asking "what should I do?" dont be offended and take it personal. They are merely offering you the easiest and most cost effectve way to make the hp you might want to. BUT dont get me wrong, there are a lot of 4g assholes out there, and on the same token a lot of 420A assholes.
We all share a COMMON INTEREST and a COMMON GOAL. Let's all be adult about this and get along. We all have some of the most beautiful cars, and the only thing that is diff is the engine choice. Should/are we gonna let that get in the way of talking to/meeting/helping out a fellow DSM'er???? I would like to think not.

I like any 4g63, 4g67, as I do any 420A owner out there.

Be CONSTRUCTIVE NOT DESTRUCTIVE TO THE DSM COMMUNITY!!

 

[ShadowWulf]

 

[S1L3NoZ]

Well said green95hrcgs

It's so aweful to see that peeps can't answer a question without putting others down.... Answer to the best of your knowledge.... If you don't have anything else to say except negative stuff, don't say anything at all....

 

[turbo8u]

When HRC runs his 10 second times there is nothing streetable about his car. Cheater slicks are track legal but not street legal. Bill Hahn represents the most that anyone has gotton from the 420a and he runs a 10.87 with a BIG shot of Nitrous and all the bells and whistles you can buy for the 420a. Kerry Runnou runs 10.46 with NO nitrous and Jeff Herrington runs 11.03 on a STOCK 7 bolt.

excuse me but what are these "bells and whistles" you're talking about? like i said its on a stock head, stock cams and stock computer (ignition tables but not fuel) the motor just has forged internals and a 20g turbo, and yes...nitrous. the point is the only thing upgraded is the weak link of the motor, the pistons and rods. the 420a was not designed for boost from the factory like the 4g63 was, so saying a stock turbo motor can handle 300-400hp is not all that impressive. yes it may be "easier" to make power for you 4g63 guys but come on....all you have to do is have a set of metric sockets, buschurracing.com and a credit card, no real KNOWLEDGE of actual engine mechanics. most people with built 420a's assembled them themselves, how many of you guys have done that? oh yea, STOCK 7 bolt....you dont even touch it. wheres the fun in that?

anyway my point being, bill hahns motor is not maxed out and its not even touching its potential.

the mopar srt-4 is in the 7's right now, its a chrysler 2.4 aka stroked 2.0, or in escense...a 2.4L 420a. not exactly i know, but still...the motors are incredibly similar and the blocks from the NT 2.4's actually bolt to the 420a's lotus head. now base model NT's are lighter than you boat GST's and GSX's, so less power to be just as fast. we also have longer gear ratios, so more acceleration (slightly) we also dont have wack trannies like you AWD guys. slap in a hybrid 2.4L clone motor from that drag srt into a 2200lb base esi talon and push 25psi? yea, that hasnt been done yet...:cough: :cough:

 

[selmerguy]

I think the origanal thread was something like please stop telling me to sell my car and buy a 4g63t. The point of this is when someone has a question answer the question don't tell him to buy a new car. If he wanted you to tell him to buy a new car his thread probably would have said "420a turbo or 4g63 turbo."


I have built many fast all motor v8's that have ran 10's and even a 9 sec trans am. My 420a is my first try with a turbo and let me tell you it is some of the most fun building a car that i have ever had. I am going a different route as far as making my own kit but that is not the point.

If i was to look at and compare the to motors i would see two 4 bangers that have 2.0 displacement. put lower compression pistons in the 420a and you have a very similer power plant as the 4g63.

Lets just try to answer the question posted on the thread and only supply our opinion when asked.

opinion's are like assholes everyone has one

 

[2fast420a]

excuse me but what are these "bells and whistles" you're talking about? like i said its on a stock head, stock cams and stock computer (ignition tables but not fuel) the motor just has forged internals and a 20g turbo, and yes...nitrous. the point is the only thing upgraded is the weak link of the motor, the pistons and rods. the 420a was not designed for boost from the factory like the 4g63 was, so saying a stock turbo motor can handle 300-400hp is not all that impressive.

Ok simple enough. Bill Runs a built 420a with a massive amount of nitrous. Kerry Runnoe does not. The stock 7bolt motor has held as much as 550hp which is what Jeff Herringtons current stock 7bolt runs. That is more than HRCs built motor runs without nitrous. HRC says that Kerry's car is a race car but they both run cars that are not street legal.

yes it may be "easier" to make power for you 4g63 guys but come on....all you have to do is have a set of metric sockets, buschurracing.com and a credit card, no real KNOWLEDGE of actual engine mechanics. most people with built 420a's assembled them themselves, how many of you guys have done that? oh yea, STOCK 7 bolt....you dont even touch it. wheres the fun in that?

I speak from being both a 4G63 and a former 420a guy when I say there is not much fun in being slow and compared to my GSX my 420a was slow. I would rather spend my time behind the steering wheel than under the hood. There is something that just feels right about not having to spend all the extra cash and time only to end up with a 13 second car.

anyway my point being, bill hahns motor is not maxed out and its not even touching its potential.

You say HRC is just now tapping into the 420a potential but the man has had over 4 years to do it! How much more time does he need? The addition of the portfueler system was supposed to make things better but I have yet to see a single 420a gain decent numbers from using it. HRC used it at the shootout and ran mid to high 12s with it.

the mopar srt-4 is in the 7's right now, its a chrysler 2.4 aka stroked 2.0, or in escense...a 2.4L 420a. not exactly i know, but still...the motors are incredibly similar and the blocks from the NT 2.4's actually bolt to the 420a's lotus head. now base model NT's are lighter than you boat GST's and GSX's, so less power to be just as fast. we also have longer gear ratios, so more acceleration (slightly) we also dont have wack trannies like you AWD guys. slap in a hybrid 2.4L clone motor from that drag srt into a 2200lb base esi talon and push 25psi? yea, that hasnt been done yet...:cough: :cough:

This here is all talk. You rip on the AWD tranny but AWD is one of the main things keeping you guys from making and really decent numbers without slicks or drag radials. I don't know where the hell you got 2200lbs for an esi, but that is very wrong. The point is the 420a has had several years already to step up to the plate and prove itself and only one person (Bill Hahn) has actually done that. Compare that to the hundreds of 4G63 guys who have already stepped up and it would boggle the mind why anyone would ever spend that much money when they don't have to.

 

[ShadowWulf]

Can we all just....get along now?

 

[CrazyClipse]

OMFG! MAKE IT STOP

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blah blah blah blah

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blah blah blah blah

To each his and her own. Work on what you will and dont f#$%ing criticize others. mmmk?!

Thats all I have to say about this thread.

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kthnx

 

[na90dsm]

^^^^agrees.

i love all 4g63's but if a fast 420a comes along ill give it credit. only thing i dont give credits are fords, cept the 460bb

 

[turbo8u]

2fast420a is a genius

 

[2fast420a]

2fast420a is a genius

I wish, I just learned from doing things the hard way first.

 

[turbo8u]

I wish, I just learned from doing things the hard way first.

sounds to me like you just gave up and went the easy route

 

[2fast420a]

sounds to me like you just gave up and went the easy route

If by easy you mean faster and more practical then yes I did.

 

[turbo8u]

hey well its not my fault you didnt make it fast....

i slap gsx's around all day long, and i can take pride in what ive built

come to the socal meet and i'll show you what a 420a is really made of

 

[2fast420a]

hey well its not my fault you didnt make it fast....

i slap gsx's around all day long, and i can take pride in what ive built

come to the socal meet and i'll show you what a 420a is really made of

My car was fast, it just was not fast enough. Look, I'm not ripping on your setup at all. You can't get offended by my opinion because like one guy on here said everyone has one. I think it was a combination of the fact that the car was a FWD and the money pitt the 420a is that made me sell the car but I'm glad I did. The only way I'm going to be impressed with the 420a setup is when people who have them start consistantly getting 12 and 11 second passes.

I used to have illusions with my 420a of being the underdog and kicking everyones ass with a N/A but honestly when you pull up to the stoplight the only thing the guy in the mustang sees is a DSM. Half the time they don't even have a clue if your N/A or turbo or if your AWD or FWD. Most people arrent shocked by a turbo 420a because they really don't have a clue what the difference between a RS,GS,GS-T, or GSX is. I bought my GSX so that I could get the most out of the DSM and not just the motor.