Please review and critique my current build

[ryguy86eklipse]

First off, just wanted to say hello everyone and thank you for being a part of these awesome forums! I'm glad to be a member of an awesome community with a wealth of knowledge.

I've spent the last several months reading thread after thread after thread on all my questions and hit a point where I really want to get other peoples feedback as I'm starting to develop my own path for an upgrade plan. Although I have read a lot of threads, I'm sure there's some I've missed, so please link to a post if you feel I missed something through searching.

I have a 92 TSi AWD which as of this moment is completely stock, and my goal for the car is this: to build it up to be a torque machine with enough top-end to perform in auto-x and road race. However, during the beginning stages of the build it is my DD, and in the event of an emergency I do have a spare car but it's not the most reliable.

Below is the current modifications I'm in the process of purchasing/installing thus far.


Suspension :

Coilover Suspension :
KSport Coilover - Spring Rates are currently 420 lbs in the front and 392 lbs in the rear. ** This is the default spring rate, and I've put half the money down for them, so before they ship, would you feel this would be an ideal spring rate with my goals in mind?** I've done some research on lowering height, and know that lowering more than an inch can cause problems, however I've seen plenty of people go 2" and be okay. Are there any other precautions I can use to safely go that low, or will the 2" negate some of the effects gained from a less drastic drop? Also, I plan to corner-weight the car.

Wheels :
RX-7 FD 16x8 Rims. 10MM hub-centric wheel spacer, with longer and stronger bolts/lugs.

Tires :
I am still researching what tires to go with, however I do plan to go with 245/45 tires. Suggestions appreciated.

Brakes :
Wilwood 12.2" Brake Kit. /cginews.pl?record=14

Misc Handling :
Aluminum Motor Mounts (Front+Rear) Will either go with prothane for the remaining mounts, or change to aluminum if they become available.

Bushings galore for the shifter/control arms/etc. I will probably end up using a vendor kit for all this.
------------End of Suspension------------

I have a few questions to follow as I'm now starting to plan the "go faster" phase.

First off, let's assume I already have the supporting mods for the below list, as I will be purchasing them prior. (MBC, Boost Gauges, EGT Gauge, DSMLink, Dejon 3" Intake setup for GM MAF, etc. I may be forgetting others since I'm doing this off the top of my head.)

As far as exhaust is concerned, I love the sound of the Apexi N1 setup, however I know the system has a 2.5" downpipe to flex. I also know as the exhaust goes further, it benefits from the growth to 3". Would there be any benefit for me using a full 3" turbo back exhaust, such as VRS's system for the following setup? Also, as this isn't going to be a HP monster as most drag applications, would the exhaust benefit from the o2 elim?


Turbo :
Evo III 16G or GT35R, I'm undecided. I am really aiming for torque and acceleration since this will be driven for auto-x, however I would love to get some additional feedback, as I currently plan to stick with the E316G as it's bolt on and a cheaper route, and I can always upgrade later.

O2 Housing :
Ported Evo III o2 housing

FMIC :
Ebay Setup, or may just get an ETS or SBR kit. Undecided here.

Fuel Mods :
FIC 660's.
Aero FPR + any necessary line upgrades
Walboro 255hp
Volt mod for Fuel Pump

Engine :
TBD ... I'm still researching strokers, but currently leaning towards a 4GCS/4G64 and building it. Ported 2G built head.

JMF Drag IM

Evo 3 Ported Exh Mani


Thank you for patience reading all of this, and I really hope that if anything others will learn too from your feedback. - Ryan

 

[kahl23]

Whoa, trying to decide between a 16G and a GT35R? You need to do some more research, as you're deciding between a turbo that flows under 40 lb/min and one that flows 65+ lb/min, depending on what flavor of GT35R you have. Also, anyone who says that a GT35R is a good turbo for auto-x has no idea what they're saying. Autocross requires a turbo with fast spool and good transient response, two qualities that anyone can agree the 16G has the GT35R beat on easily. A guy on here, Dennis Grant of Far North Racing (DG-FNR on here I believe) campaigned a 2G running a T-28 (I believe)pretty successfully, which makes me think you'd have much better luck with the 16G. He also has some great posts about the best autox suspension setup, which IIRC is Koni yellows, I forget what springs, and pillowball upper mounts. Why the Drag intake manifold? As the name implies, it's meant for DRAG racing, not autox or road race. That means it's built for top end power at the expense of low end torque, which you said you wanted. I would just stick with the 1g manifold and get an extrude hone if you really want. Also bear in mind that modifications like a non stock appearing turbo, intake manifold, or intercooler could bump you into classes where you would just get owned by far faster cars. For road racing, Greg Collier, when he still raced his 1g, ran a 16g and sidemount with a lot of luck. I would say for your goals and keeping in mind class limitations, the best options for you might be the 16g with a Supra/Dejon sidemount. Here are some things for you to look at:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/handling-tech/307362-build-your-own-koni-coilovers.html

Far North Racing Team Home Page

 

[nlzn]

Gt35r in all variants are pretty nice turbos but I really think you'll be dissapointed after dropping all the money for one. The above post nailed the gt35 question and the intake manifold one as well.
If you go with a 16g you won't need 600+ injectors unless you plan on going bigger later, 550s will do just fine.. and the 16G will not only save you money.. it's a WAY better choice for autocross. The only thing I don't agree with is the SMIC. Get a FMIC.. especially if you're gonna auto-x in the summer. It's easy to heatsoak a 16g with a SMIC running max boost (24+)

I still don't think people give 16G's the credit they deserve 1/2 the time. I've been in some serious turbo cars (750+WHP DSMs for one and ya they are insane. BUT a properly tuned 16g with supporting mods will suprise a lot of people. Seeing 350WHP on paper is hell of a lot different than feeling yourself putting down that 350WHP. Not to mention, drive a car with a good suspension setup with a tuned 16g on a small auto-x course and I guarantee it's much more fun than a gt35r.. simple because you'll be in spool a lot more

 

[WhiteDSM420a]

GT35R my buddy has it in his 240, great turbo, a little pricey but worth it overall, doesn't grant shaft play as quick as the 16g

 

[jjgrizz73]

gt35r on 660 injectors? everything suspension wise is great. but looks like your on the fence about the build. looks more like you have the evoIII setup more than the gt35r. 35r is quite a difference...

 

[Gamble97]

Kind of all depends on your goals. 16gs can go pretty fast, my friend went 12.2 in his auto on a 16g. A local shop car went 10.9x on a 16g.
I had one for a short time and I didn't care for it, I use a gt3561, it's a 35r that is not ball bearing. And I must say that I LOVE it. They dont make it anymore, but it's the same as a scm61 which is a very popular turbo. It flows a TON of air and when it hits, it hits hard.
I am more than happy with mine and don't plan on changing it out anytime soon unless I outflow it. Currently flowing 50lb/min at 22-23psi.
And with this turbo comes big injectors. I am on 850s and hit around 70% IDC and have plenty of room left to play, but if you plan on going e85 then think bigger. Like 1350-1600 in that range.

 

[Rob10_99]

If your thinking of the stroker, I would suggest the 30R. Whats a little lag worth to you? How often are you going to drive it on the street after your done building it?
With roadrace being 120mph at some tracks depending on where you live, I would for sure get a good suspention/tire setup.
And front mount for sure.

 

[19BLACKGST98]

I was also very shocked with the 2 turbo's that you are thinking about. I personally want a 35R but I wont be doing auto cross anytime soon.

 

[dsm-onster]

You will be hard pressed to reach the maximum of an evo3 16g with 550s. So your choice for 650s is a good one if you plan to run the evo3 16g.

I like the idea of a smaller turbo for you, too. There's plenty of choices that spool faster than a gt35r and flow more than an evo3 16g: 18g, 20g, PTE 5031, fpgreen, gt30r/fp3052, hx35, s256/8, hx40, in order from least to most potential. There's more options then that, but that gives you a good list to start narrowing it down.

 

[DSMLIFESTYLE488]

I have heard that a lot of people love their 16G setup.... Like a lot of people say here, put the right mods and that 16G will make you a God on the track. I've seen a lot of the homies build with 16G's and from what I've experienced is lots and lots and LOTS of torque. Definitely quick spool up

 

[ryguy86eklipse]

Thank you all for your insight on the E316G. I didn't give much thought of being moved to a different class from the turbo. If I was to build a 2.4 block up however, I was reading through several threads that you'd need a bigger turbo to do it justice, which is why there was the dramatic jump from the 16g to the possible GT35R, however with the Holset being a great bang for the buck I'll have to research the HX35/40 a bit more. I think in the long run it would pay off for me to go with the evo 16g right off the bat and just swap out down the road to a 18/20G, or a Holset. Would any of you recommend the s16g? The Small 16g over the Evo 16g for the auto-x side of things? I know has a little faster spool time from what I've read, but lacks at the top-end, so perhaps I'm answering my own question... I just don't know how far you can push the s16g, and if it would hurt me too much in the top-end for road race.

DSM-onster, thanks for the list of turbos. I'll do some research on them and see what I come up with.

Kahl23, I have pondered the sidemount as well, not for being moved into a different class, but rather for the stock/sleeper appearance. The supra/dejon sidemount seems like a good upgrade, but with the hacked I've heard most people have to do for the supra SMIC to work, I've ruled it out. The Dejon is still an option, but I'm also faced with heatsoak as others mentioned since the temps in summer here are 115° F. Also, point taken on the Drag Intake. I am not decided though if SMIM from JMF or another vendor would be worth the purchase over an Evo III IM. I'm willing to spend the $500-600 needed for the IM, but just would rather make the most bang for the buck and use that towards the motor and come back to the IM later and use the Evo 3 in the meantime. Can anyone attest to the low-end torque on the Evo 3 IM vs SMIM?

 

[ryguy86eklipse]

Rob, I plan to keep the car Daily Driven through most of the upgrade process. After I have a bit of experience under my belt I plan to start the Weight Reduction and such. As far as your lag question goes, a little lag if it's minimal is acceptable, but I really want to make sure I have the low/mid-end torque going for me. Also, I think keeping the car looking stock is in my best interest. I'm really up in the air on the weight reduction because for a 92, this car has an immaculate interior and it breaks my heart to see it in pieces, .

Eventually I will switch over to a Meth injection system and E85, but it will be towards the end of the build like the weight reduction.

 

[kahl23]

As far as the differences between the 16g's go, read this great thread by dsm-oster, it explains things very well.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/318980-difference-between-small-16g-big-16g.html

With the intake manifolds I think you need to think about what you want for the car. Most of the sheetmetal manifolds will sacrifice torque for horsepower. The cyclone would be a good option if you get it running right, but I've never ran one. The stock 1g mani isn't all that bad either. When we were running an E316g we made 347awhp/357awtq on pump and 374awhp/389awtq on race, so it can definitely give you some good torque numbers.

 

[ryguy86eklipse]

Thanks for that link kahl. I remember reading that awhile back, but it's good to have a refresher as to why something in the back of my head told me the s16g spooled faster. I really think it might be a better bet for my application, along with mating it up to tubular / FP intake. I like your idea of the cyclone but they seem like more trouble than they're worth.

Anyone have feedback on the exhaust setup question? Will 2.5" Apexi N1 Downpipe to flex section work okay for the setup, per-se if I went with the Small 16G setup? Also, is an o2 eliminator necessary for the setup? I had a fellow dsmtuner forum advise me it hinder performance and will cause emissions issues. I do plan to use a high flow cat, and then swap out the test pipe for track use of course.

 

[kahl23]

I can't see a 2.5inch system hurting you if you're running any 16g variant. We were trapping 117+mph in the 1/4 mile with the evoIII with a EvoIII O2 sensor housing and a VRS 2.5inch downpipe and catback. If I wasn't an idiot and shifting at 8k which is way out of the powerband on a 16g it would've been 11's for sure on that setup. Other advantages of going 2.5inch is that boost creep isn't really an issue and it's quieter/less attention grabbing than a 3inch. The only real downside was running the EvoIII O2 put the downpipe right into the tcase and chewed through the flex section, we never sprang a leak but it was really a matter of time.